35mm lenses on HD10?

Alex Raskin · June 25th, 2004, 09:54 AM

Roger, what about the GG you ordered - did it work? No markings? Please advise...

Roger Collier · June 25th, 2004, 03:14 PM

Alex,

The microlens focus screen came in and it has no markings whatsoever. I am having a little trouble getting my GR-HD1 to focus on it. I have a +10 macro between it and the camera. It looks like I will need to add one more +10. I’ll have to order one.

I did make an interesting discovery though. Try this. Just screw a +4 or +10 filter on the front of your camera. For close-ups you get instant short depth of field. The depth of field shortens with the increase in magnification of each filter. It is a pretty dramatic effect. If you try to zoom in all you will get is a blur.

I will post a clip when I get another +10 macro.

My earlier post:

I found a microlens focus screen without any markings here:

http://www.intenscreen.com/products...rmat_contax.htm

I ordered it from B&H for $79.95 here:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...4&image.y=5

Alex Raskin · June 25th, 2004, 05:33 PM

Roger, many thanks for the fast reply.

I'll order the microlens GG from B&H today.

> I did make an interesting discovery though. Try this.
> Just screw a +4 or +10 filter on the front of your camera.
> For close-ups you get instant short depth of field.

Actually, even without the macro-lens, if you just move to the telephoto end of your HD10 lens, the depth of field becomes rather shallow.

However, I have a huge problem with that as folows:
1. Servomotor that controls HD10's Focus is exceptionally bad and does NOT allow hitting any repeatable marks.
2. This method forces me to use an unknown lens angle.

So if I wanted to have a shallow DOF in the scene where I use say 50mm lens and focus racking, it seems that the only way to go is a mini35 adapter as it resolves both problems ## 1 and 2 as above.

> I am having a little trouble getting my GR-HD1 to focus on it.
> I have a +10 macro between it and the camera. It looks like I
> will need to add one more +10. I’ll have to order one.

What size is your GG then? With +10 macro on my HD10, I can focus all the way into the GG that is about 1/2 size of a 35mm film (not that I need it to be that small, of course).

Damion Luaiye · June 25th, 2004, 05:46 PM

Roger and co -

I looked into an Intenscreen custom order over on the static thread, but got stuck when they asked me for a focal length spec for the screen (didn't know how to factor in all the glass), and then I got sidetracked on an Optosigma gg.
For all I know the screen focal length might not even be an issue, but I didn't have one to specify or a screen to test. In any event Roger, the increased magnification, though probably needed, may not fully solve the problem.

These lists sure have their effect; as far as I can tell, Hoya +10 filters are out of stock across the country - everywhere I've called has them backordered. Thefilterconnection.com said the distributor THK is waiting on the next container ship. Meantime, you might want to stack a few smaller macro's to check if you can actually achieve focus on the screen. I'm very interested and would love to move forward with a custom order if it works out and we can enough people in - please let us know what happens.

and... what are your thoughts on mounting it? Does cutting it to fit a round fiter ring seem possible?
thanks -

- Damion

Eric Bilodeau · June 25th, 2004, 06:06 PM

Guys,

Has anyone tried a white rubber balloon tightened? I remember we tried that once to adapt lenses to a small miniDV camera and it worked like a charm. It was a really temporary fit but it could work, I doubt there is grain...

Wayne Morellini · June 28th, 2004, 07:46 AM

Here is a Naive question, as I haven't got to read through the 500 pages of the 35mm adapter threads. How does the focal length on the Microlense work, how does it effect the image?

Also is it possible to design a microlense that will narrow the image down to senor size to eliminate light loss for us, and get rid of the macro?

I have located another possibility for microlense tech. A number of sensor chips have a microlense infont of them to narrow the light down onto the senor pads of each pixel. If they can make them that small for 2/3rd inch chips then they could make them small enough for 35mm.

Justin Burris · July 28th, 2004, 03:52 PM

Roger,

What ever happened with the focus screen you bought from B&H? Did it end up working, or were there problems with it?

Roger Collier · July 29th, 2004, 02:26 PM

Justin,

The screen works really well with no noticeable grain. I ended up using 3 +10 macro filters to get my HD1 to focus on the screen. But finally my 35mm adapter is complete and it works beautifully. I unscrewed the handle on the top of the HD1 and added a tripod adapter so I can flip the camera upside down. I will be out of town next week but when I get back I would like to post some samples. Is there a place on this site that I could post them? It would be nice if all of the samples were in one place.

Roger

Les Dit · July 29th, 2004, 03:00 PM

Roger,
Sounds great!

Please try to post a sample that shows how the grain looks: A lot of people post either still images ( totally useless for looking at fixed pattern non-moving grain ).
The other error is posting video that is resized down to DV resolution, or video at a low bitrate that removes grain.
I recommend 6 megabits/sec Media 9 video for the JVC.
Slow pans are the best to show off the system.

-Les

Bryan Suthard · July 29th, 2004, 05:17 PM

Roger,

This sounds really cool but I can't help but wonder what this looks like on the camera. Can you post a picture of the setup?

Thanks,

Bryan

Daniel Moloko · July 29th, 2004, 05:25 PM

so now maybe we have the best camera (for this price range) ever?

i think the mess about doing adaptors for DV is the resolution. we all know everything looks great, but on tv resolution.

JVC HDV CAMS has a lot of great things about it. LES DIT told me that footage from the JVC transfered to 35mm looks great! and the 24 frames output from 30p doesnt looks jerky.

so, the only upgrade now is the mini35 lens adaptor for it,

everyone wants to know, IS IT WORTH ? IT REALLY LOOKS GOOD, THE DOF, AND WITH NO GRAINS?

thanks!!

Roger Collier · July 30th, 2004, 09:53 AM

Les,

Could you list the steps involved in converting the mpeg file created in Mpeg Edit Studio to a 6 megabits/sec Media 9 file?
And where would you recommend that I send the clip so that it can be posted?

Roger

Les Dit · July 31st, 2004, 12:31 AM

Two possible ways:

1: Use an editor that can directly save to the media9 video ( Vegas, I think Premeire Pro )

2: Save the video to an AVI file of some other sort, with minimal or no loss. Like the Huffman codec, it's lossless. .....or uncompressed, if you have space. Then use the free Media Encoder from Microsoft to encode the AVI file to the media9 WMV file. You have to set the bitrate and size in the encoder.

As far as posting it. I think that Chris Hurd (sp?) the guy that runs this forum can help you post it here.
Or find someplace that has free web space. A lot of DSL and internet providers giv you free about 10 to 100 meg of web space that you can FTP the file up to, and share it that way. You don't have to make a whole web page or anything, just use the place to save it as a file!

I hope that helps!
-Les

<<<-- Originally posted by Roger Collier : Les,

Could you list the steps involved in converting the mpeg file created in Mpeg Edit Studio to a 6 megabits/sec Media 9 file?
And where would you recommend that I send the clip so that it can be posted?

Roger -->>>

Daniel Moloko · August 2nd, 2004, 10:26 PM

please moderators, help roger to post the clips from the mini35 adaptor for HD10.

this is revolutionary

ciao

Justin Burris · August 3rd, 2004, 06:46 PM

Roger,

How do you have your focus screen mounted? Can you post pictures of your set-up?

Also, if you don't have a place to host your clip and/or pictures, I can host them for you. I have up to 25 MB worth of web space if you need.

Also, if encoding is giving you trouble, I can direct you to my ftp server, so you can upload the mpeg that the camera exports, and I can convert it to WM9.

Let me know if I can help.

Justin

June 25th, 2004, 09:54 AM	#76
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	Attn Roger Collier Roger, what about the GG you ordered - did it work? No markings? Please advise...

June 25th, 2004, 03:14 PM	#77
Roger Collier New Boot Join Date: May 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 19	Microlens focus screen from B&H Alex, The microlens focus screen came in and it has no markings whatsoever. I am having a little trouble getting my GR-HD1 to focus on it. I have a +10 macro between it and the camera. It looks like I will need to add one more +10. I’ll have to order one. I did make an interesting discovery though. Try this. Just screw a +4 or +10 filter on the front of your camera. For close-ups you get instant short depth of field. The depth of field shortens with the increase in magnification of each filter. It is a pretty dramatic effect. If you try to zoom in all you will get is a blur. I will post a clip when I get another +10 macro. My earlier post: I found a microlens focus screen without any markings here: http://www.intenscreen.com/products...rmat_contax.htm I ordered it from B&H for $79.95 here: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...4&image.y=5

June 25th, 2004, 05:46 PM	#79
Damion Luaiye New Boot Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York City Posts: 9	intenscreen Roger and co - I looked into an Intenscreen custom order over on the static thread, but got stuck when they asked me for a focal length spec for the screen (didn't know how to factor in all the glass), and then I got sidetracked on an Optosigma gg. For all I know the screen focal length might not even be an issue, but I didn't have one to specify or a screen to test. In any event Roger, the increased magnification, though probably needed, may not fully solve the problem. These lists sure have their effect; as far as I can tell, Hoya +10 filters are out of stock across the country - everywhere I've called has them backordered. Thefilterconnection.com said the distributor THK is waiting on the next container ship. Meantime, you might want to stack a few smaller macro's to check if you can actually achieve focus on the screen. I'm very interested and would love to move forward with a custom order if it works out and we can enough people in - please let us know what happens. and... what are your thoughts on mounting it? Does cutting it to fit a round fiter ring seem possible? thanks - - Damion

June 25th, 2004, 06:06 PM	#80
Eric Bilodeau Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chicoutimi, Canada Posts: 334	Guys, Has anyone tried a white rubber balloon tightened? I remember we tried that once to adapt lenses to a small miniDV camera and it worked like a charm. It was a really temporary fit but it could work, I doubt there is grain... __________________ Eric Bilodeau video SFX,DOP ___________________ http://www.fictis.net info@fictis.net

July 29th, 2004, 05:25 PM	#86
Daniel Moloko Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Brazil Posts: 124	WOW so now maybe we have the best camera (for this price range) ever? i think the mess about doing adaptors for DV is the resolution. we all know everything looks great, but on tv resolution. JVC HDV CAMS has a lot of great things about it. LES DIT told me that footage from the JVC transfered to 35mm looks great! and the 24 frames output from 30p doesnt looks jerky. so, the only upgrade now is the mini35 lens adaptor for it, everyone wants to know, IS IT WORTH ? IT REALLY LOOKS GOOD, THE DOF, AND WITH NO GRAINS? thanks!!

June 25th, 2004, 05:33 PM	#78
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	Roger, many thanks for the fast reply. I'll order the microlens GG from B&H today. > I did make an interesting discovery though. Try this. > Just screw a +4 or +10 filter on the front of your camera. > For close-ups you get instant short depth of field. Actually, even without the macro-lens, if you just move to the telephoto end of your HD10 lens, the depth of field becomes rather shallow. However, I have a huge problem with that as folows: 1. Servomotor that controls HD10's Focus is exceptionally bad and does NOT allow hitting any repeatable marks. 2. This method forces me to use an unknown lens angle. So if I wanted to have a shallow DOF in the scene where I use say 50mm lens and focus racking, it seems that the only way to go is a mini35 adapter as it resolves both problems ## 1 and 2 as above. > I am having a little trouble getting my GR-HD1 to focus on it. > I have a +10 macro between it and the camera. It looks like I > will need to add one more +10. I’ll have to order one. What size is your GG then? With +10 macro on my HD10, I can focus all the way into the GG that is about 1/2 size of a 35mm film (not that I need it to be that small, of course).

June 28th, 2004, 07:46 AM	#81
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Here is a Naive question, as I haven't got to read through the 500 pages of the 35mm adapter threads. How does the focal length on the Microlense work, how does it effect the image? Also is it possible to design a microlense that will narrow the image down to senor size to eliminate light loss for us, and get rid of the macro? I have located another possibility for microlense tech. A number of sensor chips have a microlense infont of them to narrow the light down onto the senor pads of each pixel. If they can make them that small for 2/3rd inch chips then they could make them small enough for 35mm.

July 28th, 2004, 03:52 PM	#82
Justin Burris Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Olympia, WA Posts: 54	Roger, What ever happened with the focus screen you bought from B&H? Did it end up working, or were there problems with it?

July 29th, 2004, 02:26 PM	#83
Roger Collier New Boot Join Date: May 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 19	Justin, The screen works really well with no noticeable grain. I ended up using 3 +10 macro filters to get my HD1 to focus on the screen. But finally my 35mm adapter is complete and it works beautifully. I unscrewed the handle on the top of the HD1 and added a tripod adapter so I can flip the camera upside down. I will be out of town next week but when I get back I would like to post some samples. Is there a place on this site that I could post them? It would be nice if all of the samples were in one place. Roger

July 29th, 2004, 03:00 PM	#84
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	Roger, Sounds great! Please try to post a sample that shows how the grain looks: A lot of people post either still images ( totally useless for looking at fixed pattern non-moving grain ). The other error is posting video that is resized down to DV resolution, or video at a low bitrate that removes grain. I recommend 6 megabits/sec Media 9 video for the JVC. Slow pans are the best to show off the system. -Les

July 29th, 2004, 05:17 PM	#85
Bryan Suthard Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Tampa, FL United States Posts: 135	Roger, This sounds really cool but I can't help but wonder what this looks like on the camera. Can you post a picture of the setup? Thanks, Bryan

July 30th, 2004, 09:53 AM	#87
Roger Collier New Boot Join Date: May 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 19	Les, Could you list the steps involved in converting the mpeg file created in Mpeg Edit Studio to a 6 megabits/sec Media 9 file? And where would you recommend that I send the clip so that it can be posted? Roger

July 31st, 2004, 12:31 AM	#88
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	Two possible ways: 1: Use an editor that can directly save to the media9 video ( Vegas, I think Premeire Pro ) 2: Save the video to an AVI file of some other sort, with minimal or no loss. Like the Huffman codec, it's lossless. .....or uncompressed, if you have space. Then use the free Media Encoder from Microsoft to encode the AVI file to the media9 WMV file. You have to set the bitrate and size in the encoder. As far as posting it. I think that Chris Hurd (sp?) the guy that runs this forum can help you post it here. Or find someplace that has free web space. A lot of DSL and internet providers giv you free about 10 to 100 meg of web space that you can FTP the file up to, and share it that way. You don't have to make a whole web page or anything, just use the place to save it as a file! I hope that helps! -Les <<<-- Originally posted by Roger Collier : Les, Could you list the steps involved in converting the mpeg file created in Mpeg Edit Studio to a 6 megabits/sec Media 9 file? And where would you recommend that I send the clip so that it can be posted? Roger -->>>

August 2nd, 2004, 10:26 PM	#89
Daniel Moloko Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Brazil Posts: 124	hello! anyone? please moderators, help roger to post the clips from the mini35 adaptor for HD10. this is revolutionary ciao

August 3rd, 2004, 06:46 PM	#90
Justin Burris Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Olympia, WA Posts: 54	Roger, How do you have your focus screen mounted? Can you post pictures of your set-up? Also, if you don't have a place to host your clip and/or pictures, I can host them for you. I have up to 25 MB worth of web space if you need. Also, if encoding is giving you trouble, I can direct you to my ftp server, so you can upload the mpeg that the camera exports, and I can convert it to WM9. Let me know if I can help. Justin