GR-HD1U/JY-HD10U Wish List at DVinfo.net

Frederic Lumiere · March 2nd, 2004, 05:57 PM

As we are working closely with JVC to complete Lumiere HD, our Final Cut Pro HDV editing solution which will be released at NAB, I've been invited to have dinner with the person responsible for developing the new HD10U.

This gentleman will be in town from Japan and is looking to gather a wish list for the new model.

I am looking to the experts on this board to help me compile this list.

Example:
24p
3 CCDs (unlikely for the price range)
True manual controls of exposure
Etc...

My meeting is Thursday, March 4th. In 2 days!

Go at it folks...

Thanks,

Frederic Haubrich
Lumiere Media

Barry Green · March 2nd, 2004, 06:11 PM

Almost everything can be summed up by saying it this way: take the JVC DV5000U, and add HD chips to it.

The DV5000U is a magnificent camera with almost every feature a pro needs. Good form factor, great audio, full professional controls. Just add HDV. And double or quadruple the price... an HDV DV5000U could sell for $10,000 and they'd sell every one they make.

Barring that, take the Panasonic DVX100 and plug HDV chips into it. The DVX100 is a nearly perfect handheld camera. Adding HDV resolution would make it an out-of-the-park home run. 24P (or, if you must, 25P), 16:9, high-def, with DVX caliber audio and image controls... what more could someone want? Sell it for under $5000 and it will also be a huge hit.

Troy Lamont · March 2nd, 2004, 08:02 PM

What I'd like to see in order of importance to me :) ;

NO EDGE ENHANCEMENT!
HD MONITORING VIA COMPONENT VIDEO!
Less chroma noise
More user flexibility/control for focus, shutter speed & aperture
3 CCDs (I know it's probably a pipe dream)
Transport controls on the top of the camera or possible other location
Longer zoom lens (maybe 12X or so)
Higher pixel resolution in the viewfinder (for all versions)
Alternate codes for the remote control so it doesn't run both the camera and D-VHS machine at the same time
Better bundled editing software (Perhaps Vegas, Media Pro or Premiere Pro SEs?)
Smart shoe (for the more consumer oriented version)
JVC branded accessories (lighting etc)
Eliminate the 480i DV mode. It really serves no purpose and I don't think too many people use it or would use it. 480p, 720p & 1080i.

What I don't want changed;

Resolution (unless it can be upped to 1080i)
Lens (unless it can be improved for the same price point)
Zoom rocker feel
Build quality
Price point (not by too much)
Size (it's just about perfect)

That's all I can think of for now. I love this camera!

Troy

Christopher C. Murphy · March 2nd, 2004, 08:20 PM

I've been Beta testing the Lumiere HD product - it's awesome.

Also, special thanks to Frederic Haubrich of Lumiere Media - this guy puts his money where his mouth is. Thanks Frederic for making great efforts and coming through. I'm looking forward to the final Lumiere HD.

Also, before I forget......my wish list is:

Full manual controls, better outputs, 3 CCD's (or tweak the damn thing, so it looks better with 1 CCD in low light), 24p etc....and most importantly, better customer service.

The main thing is no more CRIPPLED cameras!! Geez.

Murph

Lynne Whelden · March 2nd, 2004, 11:13 PM

Let me put in a plug for lightweight cameras. Many of these wishes stated above imply a heavier and bulkier camera. I'd like to see the HDV format migrate to the pocket sized cameras like the Sony PC-105.

Christopher C. Murphy · March 3rd, 2004, 08:17 AM

Oh no! Please no "pocket sized" HDV cameras before a full-sized one!

Thanks!

Sam Sharpe · March 3rd, 2004, 10:34 AM

1. Just bring out one model to cover all areas of the globe, dont make a distinction between PAL/NTSC models, only release a HDV model. (Just change the GR-PD1 to shoot 720p at 25fps, if this cant be done release the PD1 with the same shooting modes as the HD1).

2. allow 720p output via component out.

3. Address chroma noise issues.

4. Better manual controls.

5. Control over Edge Enhancement settings. (Ability to turn off as much as possible)

6. New capture utility with choice to output to other codecs.

7. Release software/firmware updates to correct crippled PD1 model and allow shooting in HD.

My wishes!

Kevin A. Sturges · March 3rd, 2004, 12:01 PM

Consumer priced model with NO EDGE ENHANCEMENT!!! Or at least some control over it.

Less Chroma Noise.

Hopefully better manual controls.

Oh yeah - NO EDGE ENHANCEMENT in a Hd camera, please!

Les Dit · March 3rd, 2004, 02:05 PM

Ask him 'off the record' about which features are kept off the camera for marketing rather than technical issues.
In particular, ask about manual controls.
They spent 10 times as much time on making the HD10 function as a digital still camera that it would have taken to add manual controls to the exposure. Half the user manual is devoted to the useless digital still camera features. I've never used it for a still picture.
-Les

Christopher C. Murphy · March 3rd, 2004, 02:24 PM

I agree with Les - tell them to forget about the still aspect of the camera. It's not why we're buying the camera - and if anyone says they are buying it for that let's beat them up.

Please make sure that the main issues discussed here for the last year are taken care of...and also please keep the camera under $5,000!

Thanks!

Troy Lamont · March 3rd, 2004, 02:27 PM

Quote:

I agree with Les - tell them to forget about the still aspect of the camera.

Totally agree...

Troy

Robert Jackson · March 3rd, 2004, 04:28 PM

No matter what else changes I think the focus needs to be on manual control of all major camera functions. Honestly, nothing else matters to me that much. Yeah, clean up the compression process (which will happen as better chips are available anyway) and lower noise, yada, yada, but for me the main thing is manual control.

Betsy Moore · March 3rd, 2004, 06:44 PM

1) Manual exposure, manual exposure, manual exposure

2) Interchangable lenses (Canon friendly?)

3) better sound (a built-in mic that's not buried, maybe a higher bit rate)

4) Here's one I haven't seen before: The HD equivlant of Hi-8: double the tape speed and half the compression. Have an option for the standard 60 minute tapes run at 30 minutes with more detail/better sound/less compression.

Don't change the handle! A lot of us love that swively thing:)

Oh, and 24p, 24p, 24p.

Chris Gordon · March 3rd, 2004, 07:13 PM

Chroma noise.. chroma noise.. chroma noise.

You can have all the manual controls you want, but if the fundamental image processing is flawed (such as the chroma processing on these cameras), then you have a problem. With the chroma issue fixed, you've doubled the value of these cameras.

#1 Chroma Noise
#2 Get rid of the edge enhancement altogether
#3 Manual controls
#4 The ability to record external sources in component HDTV
#5 720 60p instead of the 30p

Frederic Lumiere · March 3rd, 2004, 07:54 PM

Chris,

When it comes down to a prioritized list, I competely agree with your #1,2,3 and 5 Chris.

I would probably ad the following as well:

- Fix XLR sound
- Variable speed zoom (with manual control)
- 24p,60p

What do you think?

March 3rd, 2004, 08:17 AM	#6
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	Oh no! Please no "pocket sized" HDV cameras before a full-sized one! Thanks! __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

March 3rd, 2004, 02:24 PM	#10
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	I agree with Les - tell them to forget about the still aspect of the camera. It's not why we're buying the camera - and if anyone says they are buying it for that let's beat them up. Please make sure that the main issues discussed here for the last year are taken care of...and also please keep the camera under $5,000! Thanks! __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

March 3rd, 2004, 07:13 PM	#14
Chris Gordon Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 44	The #1 fix for these cameras... Chroma noise.. chroma noise.. chroma noise. You can have all the manual controls you want, but if the fundamental image processing is flawed (such as the chroma processing on these cameras), then you have a problem. With the chroma issue fixed, you've doubled the value of these cameras. #1 Chroma Noise #2 Get rid of the edge enhancement altogether #3 Manual controls #4 The ability to record external sources in component HDTV #5 720 60p instead of the 30p

March 2nd, 2004, 05:57 PM	#1
Frederic Lumiere Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Point Pleasant, NJ Posts: 437	GR-HD1U/JY-HD10U Wish List As we are working closely with JVC to complete Lumiere HD, our Final Cut Pro HDV editing solution which will be released at NAB, I've been invited to have dinner with the person responsible for developing the new HD10U. This gentleman will be in town from Japan and is looking to gather a wish list for the new model. I am looking to the experts on this board to help me compile this list. Example: 24p 3 CCDs (unlikely for the price range) True manual controls of exposure Etc... My meeting is Thursday, March 4th. In 2 days! Go at it folks... Thanks, Frederic Haubrich Lumiere Media

March 2nd, 2004, 06:11 PM	#2
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Almost everything can be summed up by saying it this way: take the JVC DV5000U, and add HD chips to it. The DV5000U is a magnificent camera with almost every feature a pro needs. Good form factor, great audio, full professional controls. Just add HDV. And double or quadruple the price... an HDV DV5000U could sell for $10,000 and they'd sell every one they make. Barring that, take the Panasonic DVX100 and plug HDV chips into it. The DVX100 is a nearly perfect handheld camera. Adding HDV resolution would make it an out-of-the-park home run. 24P (or, if you must, 25P), 16:9, high-def, with DVX caliber audio and image controls... what more could someone want? Sell it for under $5000 and it will also be a huge hit.

March 2nd, 2004, 08:02 PM	#3
Troy Lamont Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Studio City, CA Posts: 236	from an amateur perspective... What I'd like to see in order of importance to me :) ; NO EDGE ENHANCEMENT! HD MONITORING VIA COMPONENT VIDEO! Less chroma noise More user flexibility/control for focus, shutter speed & aperture 3 CCDs (I know it's probably a pipe dream) Transport controls on the top of the camera or possible other location Longer zoom lens (maybe 12X or so) Higher pixel resolution in the viewfinder (for all versions) Alternate codes for the remote control so it doesn't run both the camera and D-VHS machine at the same time Better bundled editing software (Perhaps Vegas, Media Pro or Premiere Pro SEs?) Smart shoe (for the more consumer oriented version) JVC branded accessories (lighting etc) Eliminate the 480i DV mode. It really serves no purpose and I don't think too many people use it or would use it. 480p, 720p & 1080i. What I don't want changed; Resolution (unless it can be upped to 1080i) Lens (unless it can be improved for the same price point) Zoom rocker feel Build quality Price point (not by too much) Size (it's just about perfect) That's all I can think of for now. I love this camera! Troy

March 2nd, 2004, 08:20 PM	#4
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	I've been Beta testing the Lumiere HD product - it's awesome. Also, special thanks to Frederic Haubrich of Lumiere Media - this guy puts his money where his mouth is. Thanks Frederic for making great efforts and coming through. I'm looking forward to the final Lumiere HD. Also, before I forget......my wish list is: Full manual controls, better outputs, 3 CCD's (or tweak the damn thing, so it looks better with 1 CCD in low light), 24p etc....and most importantly, better customer service. The main thing is no more CRIPPLED cameras!! Geez. Murph __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

March 2nd, 2004, 11:13 PM	#5
Lynne Whelden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: williamsport, pa Posts: 604	Let me put in a plug for lightweight cameras. Many of these wishes stated above imply a heavier and bulkier camera. I'd like to see the HDV format migrate to the pocket sized cameras like the Sony PC-105.

March 3rd, 2004, 10:34 AM	#7
Sam Sharpe Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: London Posts: 31	1. Just bring out one model to cover all areas of the globe, dont make a distinction between PAL/NTSC models, only release a HDV model. (Just change the GR-PD1 to shoot 720p at 25fps, if this cant be done release the PD1 with the same shooting modes as the HD1). 2. allow 720p output via component out. 3. Address chroma noise issues. 4. Better manual controls. 5. Control over Edge Enhancement settings. (Ability to turn off as much as possible) 6. New capture utility with choice to output to other codecs. 7. Release software/firmware updates to correct crippled PD1 model and allow shooting in HD. My wishes!

March 3rd, 2004, 12:01 PM	#8
Kevin A. Sturges Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 167	Consumer priced model with NO EDGE ENHANCEMENT!!! Or at least some control over it. Less Chroma Noise. Hopefully better manual controls. Oh yeah - NO EDGE ENHANCEMENT in a Hd camera, please!

March 3rd, 2004, 02:05 PM	#9
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	Ask him 'off the record' about which features are kept off the camera for marketing rather than technical issues. In particular, ask about manual controls. They spent 10 times as much time on making the HD10 function as a digital still camera that it would have taken to add manual controls to the exposure. Half the user manual is devoted to the useless digital still camera features. I've never used it for a still picture. -Les

March 3rd, 2004, 04:28 PM	#12
Robert Jackson Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Santa Rosa, CA Posts: 390	No matter what else changes I think the focus needs to be on manual control of all major camera functions. Honestly, nothing else matters to me that much. Yeah, clean up the compression process (which will happen as better chips are available anyway) and lower noise, yada, yada, but for me the main thing is manual control.

March 3rd, 2004, 06:44 PM	#13
Betsy Moore Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 444	1) Manual exposure, manual exposure, manual exposure 2) Interchangable lenses (Canon friendly?) 3) better sound (a built-in mic that's not buried, maybe a higher bit rate) 4) Here's one I haven't seen before: The HD equivlant of Hi-8: double the tape speed and half the compression. Have an option for the standard 60 minute tapes run at 30 minutes with more detail/better sound/less compression. Don't change the handle! A lot of us love that swively thing:) Oh, and 24p, 24p, 24p.

March 3rd, 2004, 07:54 PM	#15
Frederic Lumiere Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Point Pleasant, NJ Posts: 437	Chris, When it comes down to a prioritized list, I competely agree with your #1,2,3 and 5 Chris. I would probably ad the following as well: - Fix XLR sound - Variable speed zoom (with manual control) - 24p,60p What do you think?