GR-HD1 Edge enhancement at DVinfo.net

Chris Gordon · February 14th, 2004, 01:28 PM

I've seen a lot of discussion on this board about the edge enhancement on the HD1. (Mostly negative.) So what exactly does it do? Why is it bad? What does it do to the images? Is the HD10U so much better because it doesn't have EE?

Thanks!

David Newman · February 14th, 2004, 06:38 PM

The edge enhancement makes the image look sharper on consumer televisions. In many cases the edge enhancement is fine and may even be desired. The problem is if it is not the look you want, and it is not practical to remove it in post. The HD10U has been modified to greatly reduce the EE, offering more freedom in post for the professional to create the look they want. EE can be easily added but not taken away.

Troy Lamont · February 15th, 2004, 01:23 AM

You can click on this thread to see first hand what it is and what it does to the image.

There's also some shots that were apparently setup identically with the HD1 and HD10 to show the difference in edge enhancement on the same shot (first set of photos).

Personally it doesn't cause me that much of a problem on 99% of my shooting (I have the HD1). It is very apparent in shots like the ones shown in the thread above (powerlines, radio towers, etc).

Basically it adds artificial dimesionality to images that really don't need to be enhanced. It's like the sharpness on the TV. If you can deal with it, it's not that big of a problem.

Troy

Heath McKnight · February 16th, 2004, 02:05 PM

Yeah, I'm not a fan, either. Darren Kelly's HDV JumpStart DVD provides some great examples, too. That's where I saw what the HD1 looked like and was grateful I bought the HD10 last July.

heath

Chris Gordon · February 16th, 2004, 10:10 PM

I notice the EE in my footage now that I'm aware of it. I think I can live with it for the most part.

What REALLY needs to be corrected on these cameras in the Gawd-awful CHROMA NOISE. The picture would be so much more beautiful if this flaw was fixed. I did some test shots with some Valentine Roses. The footage was incredible, the chroma noise ruined it.

David Newman · February 16th, 2004, 10:59 PM

The chroma noise is mostly removable -- resulting clean images. Here is a thread on the subject http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=20371. I have a free filter for Aspect HD users, and others a working on a solution for the Mac.

Heath McKnight · February 17th, 2004, 01:02 AM

Great lighting seems to help in the chroma noise department.

heath

David Newman · February 17th, 2004, 09:35 AM

I have found the level of the chroma noise to be same no matter the lighting. It is true that it can be less noticable in brighter objects as there is more signal to the constant noise level. Once I determined this, the noise was easier to remove.

Heath McKnight · February 17th, 2004, 09:40 AM

Interesting point, David.

heath

Sam Sharpe · February 27th, 2004, 11:50 AM

Has anyone tried using the HD1 with different filters to see if this can help reduce the EE? Also does anyone know of a matte box / filter adapter which will fit the HD1?

February 14th, 2004, 01:28 PM	#1
Chris Gordon Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 44	GR-HD1 Edge enhancement I've seen a lot of discussion on this board about the edge enhancement on the HD1. (Mostly negative.) So what exactly does it do? Why is it bad? What does it do to the images? Is the HD10U so much better because it doesn't have EE? Thanks!

February 14th, 2004, 06:38 PM	#2
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	The edge enhancement makes the image look sharper on consumer televisions. In many cases the edge enhancement is fine and may even be desired. The problem is if it is not the look you want, and it is not practical to remove it in post. The HD10U has been modified to greatly reduce the EE, offering more freedom in post for the professional to create the look they want. EE can be easily added but not taken away. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

February 15th, 2004, 01:23 AM	#3
Troy Lamont Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Studio City, CA Posts: 236	Examples... You can click on this thread to see first hand what it is and what it does to the image. There's also some shots that were apparently setup identically with the HD1 and HD10 to show the difference in edge enhancement on the same shot (first set of photos). Personally it doesn't cause me that much of a problem on 99% of my shooting (I have the HD1). It is very apparent in shots like the ones shown in the thread above (powerlines, radio towers, etc). Basically it adds artificial dimesionality to images that really don't need to be enhanced. It's like the sharpness on the TV. If you can deal with it, it's not that big of a problem. Troy

February 16th, 2004, 02:05 PM	#4
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Yeah, I'm not a fan, either. Darren Kelly's HDV JumpStart DVD provides some great examples, too. That's where I saw what the HD1 looked like and was grateful I bought the HD10 last July. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

February 16th, 2004, 10:10 PM	#5
Chris Gordon Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 44	Edge Enhance vs. Chroma Noise I notice the EE in my footage now that I'm aware of it. I think I can live with it for the most part. What REALLY needs to be corrected on these cameras in the Gawd-awful CHROMA NOISE. The picture would be so much more beautiful if this flaw was fixed. I did some test shots with some Valentine Roses. The footage was incredible, the chroma noise ruined it.

February 16th, 2004, 10:59 PM	#6
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	The chroma noise is mostly removable -- resulting clean images. Here is a thread on the subject http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=20371. I have a free filter for Aspect HD users, and others a working on a solution for the Mac. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

February 17th, 2004, 01:02 AM	#7
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Great lighting seems to help in the chroma noise department. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

February 17th, 2004, 09:35 AM	#8
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	I have found the level of the chroma noise to be same no matter the lighting. It is true that it can be less noticable in brighter objects as there is more signal to the constant noise level. Once I determined this, the noise was easier to remove. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

February 17th, 2004, 09:40 AM	#9
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Interesting point, David. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

February 27th, 2004, 11:50 AM	#10
Sam Sharpe Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: London Posts: 31	JVC HD1/PD1 filters? Has anyone tried using the HD1 with different filters to see if this can help reduce the EE? Also does anyone know of a matte box / filter adapter which will fit the HD1?