reliability of the HD10? at DVinfo.net

Glen Vandermolen · February 11th, 2004, 02:33 PM

I am trying to convince my production company to purchase a JY-HD10 for low-budget productions. It would mostly be used in the DV mode, and I like the option of HD down the road.
The problem is all of our equipment vendors -and I mean all- are not reacting favorably to the HD10. They say it isn't reliable, has little backing from JVC, and if it breaks you can kiss it good-bye. My chief engineer is leaning against the camera, and is opting for the Sony PD-170 or the Panasonic DXV-100A, perhaps even the Sony 250 DVCam.

My question to those of you who have the HD10 is: are the cameras reliable? Are there any problerms that keep cropping up? Do any of you recommend the other choices before the HD10?

I am hoping my desire for a HD capable camera isn't clouding my judgement, but darn it, I want that HD capability! I also don't want to get screwed being stuck with an unreliable camera. I don't have time to do a hands-on demo of all the cameras. I do have input on the final purchase decision. I sure don't want to make a big mistake.
Any recommendations or advice? Thanks.

Ken Tanaka · February 11th, 2004, 03:37 PM

What nature of work does your production company do? What type of jobs do you expect to use the JVC on?

David Newman · February 11th, 2004, 03:40 PM

I think you should purchase a camera with the features you need now. I have found HD10U to be perfectly reliable, and we use it exclusively in the HD mode. The HD10U is not the best choice for the price if you only intend to shoot in DV. I'm a fan of shooting HD now, then distributing in SD if you have too, because the other why around simply looks inferior. You need to decide when you want HD, and that wil be the best purchase time. Early adopters on the HD10U knew the future will deliver better cameras, that is why they are shooting HD now, getting your moneys worth and establishing competitive advantage with a early foothold in the soon to be huge HD production market.

Glen Vandermolen · February 11th, 2004, 03:59 PM

We are a producer of cable commercials. The new camera will be used for quick run-and-gun shoots. We now use a Sony Beta SX camera for our regular clientele. The new mini-dv cam will be used for very low budget shoots. I was hoping to also have the HD capability for bigger budget clients. I am curious if the camera is suitable for that use as well.

If I shoot in HD but import to our non-linear editors in DV mode, the aspect ratio will be wrong, won't it? or do I have to shoot thinking in 4:3 ratio? In other words, be prepared to lose the outer left-right edges of the video for DV.
I believe if I shoot in HD the video will be far superior to the other mini-Dv cameras, even if I import the video in DV. Is this true?

Also, is the one-chip image as sharp as the other cameras as far as resolution shooting in DV mode? I understand about the chroma loss, but to be honest, what I've seen in chroma from the DVX-100 hasn't really thrilled me.
I have to make my recommendations, perhaps as early as tomorrow.
Thanks for the advice.

David Newman · February 11th, 2004, 04:30 PM

Unfortunately you can't shoot in HD them import in DV, the camera simply can't do that. If you shoot in HD, and you want to use existing DV editing tools, you will have to down-scale after importing the HD TS files into the PC. This is not simple as most of the existing editing apps can't handle the HD files even for a down-convert. You are going to have to re-think your workflow, or purchase some new tools that are HD ready.

Shooting DV mode will simplify editing and aspect ratio issues for 4:3 SD, but your picture will not be as good as a 3 chip DV camera for a similar price. This camera should be used in HD only, that is where it stands-out.

Maybe you should tell us your preferred editing platform and application to help us advise you on your workflow.

Heath McKnight · February 11th, 2004, 04:47 PM

I wouldn't use the DV mode, because even JVC admits that the DV mode ain't that hot.

Check out the links I set up to the JVC FAQ on the HD10, along with the HD10 manual:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=17335

Thanks,

heath

Glen Vandermolen · February 11th, 2004, 10:13 PM

Thanks for the advice, guys. It's beginning to clear up my perceptions of the HD10.

Heath, I appreciate the link you provided. I still have a question: Can I shoot in SD mode and import that into an AVID Media Composer? It wouldn't be high def, but acording to JVC, it will still have superior resolution compared to other camcorders.

David, my editing platform is an AVID Media Composer 1000 in PC and Apple computers. We curently use Beta SX and import the video as serial digital. We can import uncompressed video into our systems.
We plan on using this camera for quick shoots and quick edits, nothing fancy. We are purchasing a smaller camera system to satisfy our new, very low budget customers, something like $400 a month in advertising revenue. I don't need a great camera. The reason I want to buy the HD10 is partly for my own personal reasons. I want to shoot in HD and I hope to eventually use this capability for our more well-heeled clients. Plus, I want to shoot my own personal projects in high def. Told you I was selfish.

Heath McKnight · February 11th, 2004, 10:57 PM

Glen,

Post it over in the HDV board, so editors can read it, too! The answer is yes on the SD and DV front.

heath

February 11th, 2004, 02:33 PM	#1
Glen Vandermolen Space Hipster Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,596	reliability of the HD10? I am trying to convince my production company to purchase a JY-HD10 for low-budget productions. It would mostly be used in the DV mode, and I like the option of HD down the road. The problem is all of our equipment vendors -and I mean all- are not reacting favorably to the HD10. They say it isn't reliable, has little backing from JVC, and if it breaks you can kiss it good-bye. My chief engineer is leaning against the camera, and is opting for the Sony PD-170 or the Panasonic DXV-100A, perhaps even the Sony 250 DVCam. My question to those of you who have the HD10 is: are the cameras reliable? Are there any problerms that keep cropping up? Do any of you recommend the other choices before the HD10? I am hoping my desire for a HD capable camera isn't clouding my judgement, but darn it, I want that HD capability! I also don't want to get screwed being stuck with an unreliable camera. I don't have time to do a hands-on demo of all the cameras. I do have input on the final purchase decision. I sure don't want to make a big mistake. Any recommendations or advice? Thanks.

February 11th, 2004, 03:37 PM	#2
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	What nature of work does your production company do? What type of jobs do you expect to use the JVC on? __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

February 11th, 2004, 03:40 PM	#3
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	I think you should purchase a camera with the features you need now. I have found HD10U to be perfectly reliable, and we use it exclusively in the HD mode. The HD10U is not the best choice for the price if you only intend to shoot in DV. I'm a fan of shooting HD now, then distributing in SD if you have too, because the other why around simply looks inferior. You need to decide when you want HD, and that wil be the best purchase time. Early adopters on the HD10U knew the future will deliver better cameras, that is why they are shooting HD now, getting your moneys worth and establishing competitive advantage with a early foothold in the soon to be huge HD production market. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

February 11th, 2004, 04:30 PM	#5
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Unfortunately you can't shoot in HD them import in DV, the camera simply can't do that. If you shoot in HD, and you want to use existing DV editing tools, you will have to down-scale after importing the HD TS files into the PC. This is not simple as most of the existing editing apps can't handle the HD files even for a down-convert. You are going to have to re-think your workflow, or purchase some new tools that are HD ready. Shooting DV mode will simplify editing and aspect ratio issues for 4:3 SD, but your picture will not be as good as a 3 chip DV camera for a similar price. This camera should be used in HD only, that is where it stands-out. Maybe you should tell us your preferred editing platform and application to help us advise you on your workflow. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

February 11th, 2004, 04:47 PM	#6
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I wouldn't use the DV mode, because even JVC admits that the DV mode ain't that hot. Check out the links I set up to the JVC FAQ on the HD10, along with the HD10 manual: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=17335 Thanks, heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

February 11th, 2004, 03:59 PM	#4
Glen Vandermolen Space Hipster Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,596	We are a producer of cable commercials. The new camera will be used for quick run-and-gun shoots. We now use a Sony Beta SX camera for our regular clientele. The new mini-dv cam will be used for very low budget shoots. I was hoping to also have the HD capability for bigger budget clients. I am curious if the camera is suitable for that use as well. If I shoot in HD but import to our non-linear editors in DV mode, the aspect ratio will be wrong, won't it? or do I have to shoot thinking in 4:3 ratio? In other words, be prepared to lose the outer left-right edges of the video for DV. I believe if I shoot in HD the video will be far superior to the other mini-Dv cameras, even if I import the video in DV. Is this true? Also, is the one-chip image as sharp as the other cameras as far as resolution shooting in DV mode? I understand about the chroma loss, but to be honest, what I've seen in chroma from the DVX-100 hasn't really thrilled me. I have to make my recommendations, perhaps as early as tomorrow. Thanks for the advice.

February 11th, 2004, 10:13 PM	#7
Glen Vandermolen Space Hipster Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,596	Thanks for the advice, guys. It's beginning to clear up my perceptions of the HD10. Heath, I appreciate the link you provided. I still have a question: Can I shoot in SD mode and import that into an AVID Media Composer? It wouldn't be high def, but acording to JVC, it will still have superior resolution compared to other camcorders. David, my editing platform is an AVID Media Composer 1000 in PC and Apple computers. We curently use Beta SX and import the video as serial digital. We can import uncompressed video into our systems. We plan on using this camera for quick shoots and quick edits, nothing fancy. We are purchasing a smaller camera system to satisfy our new, very low budget customers, something like $400 a month in advertising revenue. I don't need a great camera. The reason I want to buy the HD10 is partly for my own personal reasons. I want to shoot in HD and I hope to eventually use this capability for our more well-heeled clients. Plus, I want to shoot my own personal projects in high def. Told you I was selfish.

February 11th, 2004, 10:57 PM	#8
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Glen, Post it over in the HDV board, so editors can read it, too! The answer is yes on the SD and DV front. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog