JY-HD10U vs. Canon XL1s at DVinfo.net

Som Xai · January 5th, 2004, 06:10 PM

Between JY-HD10U and XL1s, which one is better, interm of picture quality?.

Jean-Philippe Archibald · January 5th, 2004, 06:50 PM

What you are asking is not easy. Comparing an HD cam to a DV cam in term of picture quality is like comparing oranges to apples. Perhaps people with a better knowledge of both cams can point you to some differences on the feature set of theses two camcorders.

Barry Green · January 5th, 2004, 08:20 PM

The XL1s will give you a better standard-definition image.

The HD10u will give you a better high-def image.

So, what are you shooting -- HDTV or NTSC/PAL? That'll help you make up your mind as to which camera will produce the better image for your needs.

Christopher C. Murphy · January 6th, 2004, 09:06 AM

If you shoot in HD - then downconver it to SD - you will have a better image than something aquired in SD.

It's simple - the computers compute all the bits to make up a new version of your video - minus whatever it feels is redundant information. (ok, the computer is making the choice. we might disagree, but we're not choosing ever bit...the computer is and that's why choosing a good codec is important.) The more bits you have - the more the computer has to compute/calculate the final version. The final result will be a better video if the computer has LOTS of information to re-calculate.

Does that make sense? I'd Google the word "codec" and read up a little...it's something we should all know about. In short, it means (Co) "Compress" - (Dec) "Decompress". Whenever you take a piece of video into your computer and change it to a new version by taking away "bits" you are using a codec. The whole video community is always in search of the best codec because it means your original video will remain closely intact when you change it....so, HD brought down to SD will always be better than SD not even touched.

On small note: None of this takes into account the optics of the cameras etc. That's another story all together...if a camera has incredible optics and other inside guts...it sure can make a difference. However, it's safe to say that HD cameras have decent optics and guts...otherwise, what's the point?

Murph

Som Xai · January 6th, 2004, 10:27 AM

Thanks for all :)

So, if I buy the HD10U, can I still put on DVD and play with the standard TV?. Or does it have to be play on HDTV only?.

I really like the JY-HD10U, but because it's so new and I want to research all the pitfall/ trouble before making decision buying it. What I don't like is that this camera is not Len (interchangeable)...

Again, thank you for helping me.

somxai

Christopher C. Murphy · January 6th, 2004, 10:42 AM

The answer is YES. You can because its not different than any other video file needing encoding for DVD playback.

It's not difficult...don't worry and get the HD10u! :)

Murph

Som Xai · January 6th, 2004, 11:44 AM

Anyone know where I can buy the JY-HD10U for a better price?.

I saw one at this website http://www.expresscameras.com/cart/p...d=8698&start=1

It's only $2,189.00. I just not sure if this website is true that it's the JY-HD10U even it said so. Because the HD1 is already $3500.00 at sound track. I just don't think the professional one would cost only less than the comsumer version of the camera.

If you know where has a better price and sure that when I get it, it would be the JY-HD10U, I would very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Heath McKnight · January 6th, 2004, 12:42 PM

That seems to be TOO low in price, and the number one rule is, if it's too good to be true, it probably is! I don't want you to get in trouble!

I went with a Camera Dealer, which was FANTASTIC, but you may want to go with B&H to save some money vs. a dealer.

heath

David Kennett · January 6th, 2004, 01:33 PM

I bought the HD10 for HiDef, but I realize now that there will be many times when SD will still be needed. The problem is getting a quality conversion, and crop the image to 3:4. (I have never been a fan of letterbox.) You can make analog copies from the camera as letterbox or anamorphic - but not cropped. I have a post on the editing forum on using TMPGEnc to make cropped DVD. I am very pleased with the quality - and I have the HD master as well.

If anyone has a place to post it, I could make a short DVD compliant MP2 file with some samples.

Som Xai · January 6th, 2004, 02:16 PM

So! Dave, should I go with HD10U?. Hmmm I know I asked over and over again. I don't have $$ and I don't want to waste it on a camera that will not work right for me. The camera will be for shooting movie/ home movie...wedding

Som Xai · January 6th, 2004, 02:53 PM

Oh with the JY-HD10U, can I still use my Avid Express and Adobe Premiere Pro software to edit the footages?. or do I have to purchase additional editing software for it?.

Heath McKnight · January 6th, 2004, 02:57 PM

I understand Avid stopped by JVC's factory last November. This is from Ed Sherry at JVC.

heath

Andres Lucero · January 6th, 2004, 03:30 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by David Kennett :
If anyone has a place to post it, I could make a short DVD compliant MP2 file with some samples. -->>>

Dave, I have a server you can use to host those files (e-mail address is in my profile).

Barry Green · January 6th, 2004, 10:18 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Christopher C. Murphy : If you shoot in HD - then downconver it to SD - you will have a better image than something aquired in SD. -->>>

That's only if all other things are equal, and in this case they're definitely not.

The HD1, a base-level consumer camera (although with HD resolution) cannot be compared to the XL1, an outdated but once premium 3CCD camera. If they were comparing a consumer 1-chip DV camera against a consumer 1-chip HD camera, hence all other things being equal, then your statement would hold correct.

Again, this very question (or a strikingly similar facsimile of it) was addressed by JVC on their HD1 FAQ. The question was "how does the HD1 compare to a top NTSC 3CCD camera" and in their answer they acknowledge that the 3CCD camera would have better latitude, color rendition, saturation, etc.

Craig Jones · January 7th, 2004, 09:20 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Barry Green : <<<-- Originally posted by
Again, this very question (or a strikingly similar facsimile of it) was addressed by JVC on their HD1 FAQ. The question was "how does the HD1 compare to a top NTSC 3CCD camera" and in their answer they acknowledge that the 3CCD camera would have better latitude, color rendition, saturation, etc. -->>>

I hope you aren't referring to this quote from the JVC HD1 FAQ page:

Quote:

Would 3 CCDs be superior to 1 CCD?
For absolute picture quality, yes. But there are practical trade-offs. 3 CCDs would provide superior accuracy of color reproduction, and would provide superior resolution for same density of CCD. However, the 3 CCD camera would be larger, heavier and draw more power which requires a larger battery. The 3 CCD camera would, also, increase the price of the unit.

If you are then you seriously misinterpret it. JVC makes no mention of NTSC. They are commenting on 3CCD vs. 1CCD technologies at the same resolution. You cannot reach your conclusions from this. Furthermore, a FAQ is aimed at nontechnical readers and is not always rigorous. They did not mention "latitude, color rendition, saturation, etc." either. They said color accuracy and resolution (which I personally interpret to be sharpness).

Without arguing the merits of the XL1 vs. the HD1, I'll point out that the HD1 in HD mode has far more chroma bandwidth than any DV camera possibly can.

It was once claimed by laserdisc lovers that DVD could not possibly approach the quality of laserdisc "because it was compressed and laserdisc was not". Ignoring the fundamental ignorance of that argument, it has been shown to be untrue. I believe we have an analogous situation here.

January 5th, 2004, 06:10 PM	#1
Som Xai New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 8	JY-HD10U vs. Canon XL1s Between JY-HD10U and XL1s, which one is better, interm of picture quality?.

January 5th, 2004, 06:50 PM	#2
Jean-Philippe Archibald Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Saguenay, Québec, Canada Posts: 1,051	What you are asking is not easy. Comparing an HD cam to a DV cam in term of picture quality is like comparing oranges to apples. Perhaps people with a better knowledge of both cams can point you to some differences on the feature set of theses two camcorders. __________________ Jean-Philippe Archibald http://www.jparchibald.com - http://www.vimeo.com/jparchib

January 6th, 2004, 09:06 AM	#4
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	If you shoot in HD - then downconver it to SD - you will have a better image than something aquired in SD. It's simple - the computers compute all the bits to make up a new version of your video - minus whatever it feels is redundant information. (ok, the computer is making the choice. we might disagree, but we're not choosing ever bit...the computer is and that's why choosing a good codec is important.) The more bits you have - the more the computer has to compute/calculate the final version. The final result will be a better video if the computer has LOTS of information to re-calculate. Does that make sense? I'd Google the word "codec" and read up a little...it's something we should all know about. In short, it means (Co) "Compress" - (Dec) "Decompress". Whenever you take a piece of video into your computer and change it to a new version by taking away "bits" you are using a codec. The whole video community is always in search of the best codec because it means your original video will remain closely intact when you change it....so, HD brought down to SD will always be better than SD not even touched. On small note: None of this takes into account the optics of the cameras etc. That's another story all together...if a camera has incredible optics and other inside guts...it sure can make a difference. However, it's safe to say that HD cameras have decent optics and guts...otherwise, what's the point? Murph __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

January 6th, 2004, 10:42 AM	#6
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	The answer is YES. You can because its not different than any other video file needing encoding for DVD playback. It's not difficult...don't worry and get the HD10u! :) Murph __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

January 6th, 2004, 12:42 PM	#8
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	That seems to be TOO low in price, and the number one rule is, if it's too good to be true, it probably is! I don't want you to get in trouble! I went with a Camera Dealer, which was FANTASTIC, but you may want to go with B&H to save some money vs. a dealer. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 5th, 2004, 08:20 PM	#3
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	The XL1s will give you a better standard-definition image. The HD10u will give you a better high-def image. So, what are you shooting -- HDTV or NTSC/PAL? That'll help you make up your mind as to which camera will produce the better image for your needs.

January 6th, 2004, 10:27 AM	#5
Som Xai New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 8	Thanks for all :) So, if I buy the HD10U, can I still put on DVD and play with the standard TV?. Or does it have to be play on HDTV only?. I really like the JY-HD10U, but because it's so new and I want to research all the pitfall/ trouble before making decision buying it. What I don't like is that this camera is not Len (interchangeable)... Again, thank you for helping me. somxai

January 6th, 2004, 11:44 AM	#7
Som Xai New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 8	Anyone know where I can buy the JY-HD10U for a better price?. I saw one at this website http://www.expresscameras.com/cart/p...d=8698&start=1 It's only $2,189.00. I just not sure if this website is true that it's the JY-HD10U even it said so. Because the HD1 is already $3500.00 at sound track. I just don't think the professional one would cost only less than the comsumer version of the camera. If you know where has a better price and sure that when I get it, it would be the JY-HD10U, I would very much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

January 6th, 2004, 01:33 PM	#9
David Kennett Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio Posts: 407	I bought the HD10 for HiDef, but I realize now that there will be many times when SD will still be needed. The problem is getting a quality conversion, and crop the image to 3:4. (I have never been a fan of letterbox.) You can make analog copies from the camera as letterbox or anamorphic - but not cropped. I have a post on the editing forum on using TMPGEnc to make cropped DVD. I am very pleased with the quality - and I have the HD master as well. If anyone has a place to post it, I could make a short DVD compliant MP2 file with some samples. __________________ Dave

January 6th, 2004, 02:16 PM	#10
Som Xai New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 8	So! Dave, should I go with HD10U?. Hmmm I know I asked over and over again. I don't have $$ and I don't want to waste it on a camera that will not work right for me. The camera will be for shooting movie/ home movie...wedding

January 6th, 2004, 02:53 PM	#11
Som Xai New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 8	Oh with the JY-HD10U, can I still use my Avid Express and Adobe Premiere Pro software to edit the footages?. or do I have to purchase additional editing software for it?.

January 6th, 2004, 02:57 PM	#12
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I understand Avid stopped by JVC's factory last November. This is from Ed Sherry at JVC. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 6th, 2004, 03:30 PM	#13
Andres Lucero Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 75	<<<-- Originally posted by David Kennett : If anyone has a place to post it, I could make a short DVD compliant MP2 file with some samples. -->>> Dave, I have a server you can use to host those files (e-mail address is in my profile). __________________ "Oy... Aim it downhill."

January 6th, 2004, 10:18 PM	#14
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	<<<-- Originally posted by Christopher C. Murphy : If you shoot in HD - then downconver it to SD - you will have a better image than something aquired in SD. -->>> That's only if all other things are equal, and in this case they're definitely not. The HD1, a base-level consumer camera (although with HD resolution) cannot be compared to the XL1, an outdated but once premium 3CCD camera. If they were comparing a consumer 1-chip DV camera against a consumer 1-chip HD camera, hence all other things being equal, then your statement would hold correct. Again, this very question (or a strikingly similar facsimile of it) was addressed by JVC on their HD1 FAQ. The question was "how does the HD1 compare to a top NTSC 3CCD camera" and in their answer they acknowledge that the 3CCD camera would have better latitude, color rendition, saturation, etc.