What other HD cams are coming out? at DVinfo.net

Ted Bragg · December 21st, 2003, 07:16 PM

Besides the JVCs, which other low-cost HD cams are on the way?

Me? I'd like one that shoots 1080 HD 24fps, 1 or 3 chip, optional lenses or at least an adapter to allow extra lenses to be added onto it...

I saw footage from the JVC, and while it looks great, it could be better color-wise.

Frank Granovski · December 21st, 2003, 07:28 PM

Perhaps NAB 2004 will reveal some new consumer MPEG2 HD cams.

Barry Green · December 21st, 2003, 10:00 PM

No announcements have been made from any manufacturer yet.

The HDV standard was endorsed by JVC, Sony, Canon and Sharp, so it's reasonable to expect that those companies could be working on new HDV cameras. The HDV standard calls for 1440 x 1080 at 50i and at 60i, as well as 1280 x 720 at 25p, in addition to the 720/30P offered by the JVC.

You will not see 1080/24P. That was not included in the official standard (although, that standard is subject to revision, I guess).

Geoff Murrin · December 27th, 2003, 01:12 PM

In the dv.com forums I found a bit about what might appear at NAB 2004. Of course, probably just a rumor, but a part of me thinks, what if it's not a rumor!

"Canon will be introducing HDV camcorder with separate lenses and 3 CCDs. It will have 16:9 chips and 24p. It will shoot 720p and will represent serious competition to the Varicam image-quality-wise, less the slow motion feature."

You can find the whole, original post and dissenting replies here:

http://dv.com/jive3/thread.jspa?thre...00242&tstart=0

Don Berube · December 27th, 2003, 01:16 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Ted Bragg : Besides the JVCs, which other low-cost HD cams are on the way?

Me? I'd like one that shoots 1080 HD 24fps, 1 or 3 chip, optional lenses or at least an adapter to allow extra lenses to be added onto it...

I saw footage from the JVC, and while it looks great, it could be better color-wise. -->>>

Hi Ted,

How much are you willing to pay for a 3-chip version?

- don

Les Dit · December 27th, 2003, 03:38 PM

I wish they didn't fixate on the HDV standard. It's a shame that mpeg2 is still being used for future products. The limit they will be bumping into with HDV , quality wise, will be the Mpeg2 compression. Mpeg4 looks the same at half the bits per second.
While it may take a while longer to get Mpeg4 compression engine chips to work at HD rates, it's coming. Look at the new Panasonic micro camcorder, it uses no tape, and does mpeg4.
Mpeg2 is so 'nineties' tech.
-Les

Ken Hodson · December 27th, 2003, 06:33 PM

It is exciting that Canon is (possibly) getting ready to launch an XL2, it will be a nice machine for sure, but the $price will be high. $6000 list or higher is my guess. As well we know the JVC engineers can't be sitting on their asses this whole time, so expect an XL2 rival from JVC at the same time. JVC is not going to pioneer this new tech than roll over and die. The HD10 may hold a niche for a while yet given its price.
Ken

Mark Nauth · January 4th, 2004, 09:14 PM

How soon do things hit the market after NAB?

Barry Green · January 4th, 2004, 11:49 PM

They could be announced for immediate availability, or they could take months. The DVX100 was announced at an NAB show in April 2002, but was also announced that it wouldn't be available until October.

Sometimes manufacturers show product that they have no definite release date for.

So just because something may be announced at NAB, that's no guide as to when it may be available -- it could be days, weeks, months, years... it all depends on the particular product announcement.

Evan Malter · January 5th, 2004, 12:40 AM

I know nothing about how or when these companies introduce their products, but I heard that the CES is in Vegas this upcoming weekend - I assume camcorders fall into this category. Does anything ever get announced at these shows? I am about to buy a HD1 from B&H - should I wait til after the show (in case Sony/Canon announces a camera or something)?

Just curious if anyone knows or has advice?

Mark Nauth · January 5th, 2004, 12:56 AM

Thank you Barry for that information.

Evan, I would wait just because the JVC is the primitive HD camcorder at the moment... If Canon comes out with an HD cam it will blow away the JVC... Save your money... But it's understandable if you have a project you want to do and you don't want to wait around any longer. That's kind of the position I'm in at the moment.... Waiting for the right cam... (sigh)

Evan Malter · January 5th, 2004, 01:39 AM

Mark, the project (so to speak) is due soon - my wife is 7 months pregnant and I want to have a camcorder before my baby boy is born - I am running out of time to wait for Canon and so I am probably going to bit the bullet and go with the HD1.

Ken Hodson · January 5th, 2004, 03:13 AM

My guess is if something else is announced it will be expensive. It won't cost less than a HD1 for sure. JVC was getting little market penetration and so had little to loose by pushing this cam. Canon and Sony will not be introducing HDV cams to compete with their successful consumer lines, at least not initially. So if your already getting a HD1 over a HD10 than I think your purchase is safe.
Ken

Lynne Whelden · January 5th, 2004, 08:55 AM

Tell your wife to at least wait until April's NAB. The "serious" camcorders won't be announced at January's CES.

Evan Malter · January 5th, 2004, 11:08 AM

Lynne, I can assure you that she will not agree to waiting an extra month - in fact I think it would probably be best that I don't even propose the idea. So, it looks like I will be putting in my HD1 order this week.

December 21st, 2003, 07:16 PM	#1
Ted Bragg Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 105	What other HD cams are coming out? Besides the JVCs, which other low-cost HD cams are on the way? Me? I'd like one that shoots 1080 HD 24fps, 1 or 3 chip, optional lenses or at least an adapter to allow extra lenses to be added onto it... I saw footage from the JVC, and while it looks great, it could be better color-wise.

December 27th, 2003, 01:12 PM	#4
Geoff Murrin Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 46	rumored new hdv cams In the dv.com forums I found a bit about what might appear at NAB 2004. Of course, probably just a rumor, but a part of me thinks, what if it's not a rumor! "Canon will be introducing HDV camcorder with separate lenses and 3 CCDs. It will have 16:9 chips and 24p. It will shoot 720p and will represent serious competition to the Varicam image-quality-wise, less the slow motion feature." You can find the whole, original post and dissenting replies here: http://dv.com/jive3/thread.jspa?thre...00242&tstart=0

December 27th, 2003, 01:16 PM	#5
Don Berube Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Boston, MA (travel frequently) Posts: 837	Re: What other HD cams are coming out? <<<-- Originally posted by Ted Bragg : Besides the JVCs, which other low-cost HD cams are on the way? Me? I'd like one that shoots 1080 HD 24fps, 1 or 3 chip, optional lenses or at least an adapter to allow extra lenses to be added onto it... I saw footage from the JVC, and while it looks great, it could be better color-wise. -->>> Hi Ted, How much are you willing to pay for a 3-chip version? - don __________________ DONALD BERUBE - noisybrain. Productions, LLC Director Of Photography/ Producer/ Consultant http://noisybrain.com/donbio.html CREATE and NETWORK with http://www.bosfcpug.org and also http://fcpugnetwork.org

December 27th, 2003, 06:33 PM	#7
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	It is exciting that Canon is (possibly) getting ready to launch an XL2, it will be a nice machine for sure, but the $price will be high. $6000 list or higher is my guess. As well we know the JVC engineers can't be sitting on their asses this whole time, so expect an XL2 rival from JVC at the same time. JVC is not going to pioneer this new tech than roll over and die. The HD10 may hold a niche for a while yet given its price. Ken __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

January 5th, 2004, 12:40 AM	#10
Evan Malter New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 22	CES 2004 I know nothing about how or when these companies introduce their products, but I heard that the CES is in Vegas this upcoming weekend - I assume camcorders fall into this category. Does anything ever get announced at these shows? I am about to buy a HD1 from B&H - should I wait til after the show (in case Sony/Canon announces a camera or something)? Just curious if anyone knows or has advice?

December 21st, 2003, 07:28 PM	#2
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Perhaps NAB 2004 will reveal some new consumer MPEG2 HD cams.

December 21st, 2003, 10:00 PM	#3
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	No announcements have been made from any manufacturer yet. The HDV standard was endorsed by JVC, Sony, Canon and Sharp, so it's reasonable to expect that those companies could be working on new HDV cameras. The HDV standard calls for 1440 x 1080 at 50i and at 60i, as well as 1280 x 720 at 25p, in addition to the 720/30P offered by the JVC. You will not see 1080/24P. That was not included in the official standard (although, that standard is subject to revision, I guess).

December 27th, 2003, 03:38 PM	#6
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	I wish they didn't fixate on the HDV standard. It's a shame that mpeg2 is still being used for future products. The limit they will be bumping into with HDV , quality wise, will be the Mpeg2 compression. Mpeg4 looks the same at half the bits per second. While it may take a while longer to get Mpeg4 compression engine chips to work at HD rates, it's coming. Look at the new Panasonic micro camcorder, it uses no tape, and does mpeg4. Mpeg2 is so 'nineties' tech. -Les

January 4th, 2004, 09:14 PM	#8
Mark Nauth New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 15	How soon do things hit the market after NAB?

January 4th, 2004, 11:49 PM	#9
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	They could be announced for immediate availability, or they could take months. The DVX100 was announced at an NAB show in April 2002, but was also announced that it wouldn't be available until October. Sometimes manufacturers show product that they have no definite release date for. So just because something may be announced at NAB, that's no guide as to when it may be available -- it could be days, weeks, months, years... it all depends on the particular product announcement.

January 5th, 2004, 12:56 AM	#11
Mark Nauth New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 15	Thank you Barry for that information. Evan, I would wait just because the JVC is the primitive HD camcorder at the moment... If Canon comes out with an HD cam it will blow away the JVC... Save your money... But it's understandable if you have a project you want to do and you don't want to wait around any longer. That's kind of the position I'm in at the moment.... Waiting for the right cam... (sigh)

January 5th, 2004, 01:39 AM	#12
Evan Malter New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 22	Mark, the project (so to speak) is due soon - my wife is 7 months pregnant and I want to have a camcorder before my baby boy is born - I am running out of time to wait for Canon and so I am probably going to bit the bullet and go with the HD1.

January 5th, 2004, 03:13 AM	#13
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	My guess is if something else is announced it will be expensive. It won't cost less than a HD1 for sure. JVC was getting little market penetration and so had little to loose by pushing this cam. Canon and Sony will not be introducing HDV cams to compete with their successful consumer lines, at least not initially. So if your already getting a HD1 over a HD10 than I think your purchase is safe. Ken __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

January 5th, 2004, 08:55 AM	#14
Lynne Whelden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: williamsport, pa Posts: 604	Tell your wife to at least wait until April's NAB. The "serious" camcorders won't be announced at January's CES.

January 5th, 2004, 11:08 AM	#15
Evan Malter New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 22	Not going to wait. Lynne, I can assure you that she will not agree to waiting an extra month - in fact I think it would probably be best that I don't even propose the idea. So, it looks like I will be putting in my HD1 order this week.