Home Made D-VHS at DVinfo.net

Anhar Miah · December 18th, 2003, 08:27 AM

I've been thinking about this a while back and do not know if it is possible.

I remember a while back that i read about a PCI card that when installed into a PC allowed one to store data onto your vhs tape (i.e. using your VCR as a harddrive) i know that this product was used as data "backup"

The problem is that i can not remenber this products name.

Anyway my ideas was that would it not be possible to use this product or similar product to connect to a 'normal' VCR and transmit mt2 raw data, and also read it back?

Maybe some programming may be needed? I mean itis data at the end of the day right?

Sorry for all the questions.

Anyway any ideas would be much appreciated.

Anhar Miah · December 20th, 2003, 08:18 AM

Heres one website i've found that uses VCR as data backup

heres the link:

http://www.viscountvideo.com/danmere.htm

and its only $69 BUT each tape can only store 4 gig so unless theres a way too modify the system its probabiliy a dead end

Gordon Lupien Jr. · December 20th, 2003, 06:38 PM

I think it would be very cool to have a Digital-8 deck that would record the HD. I've got a TON of Hi-8 tapes and that would be a good use for them.

Is there a way to store HD in a standard DV stream so I could use my Digital-8 camera to store HD?

I'd imagine not...

- GLupien

Anhar Miah · December 21st, 2003, 08:55 AM

I think the above danmere solution, can be extented further in terms of capacity i'm sure it can hold much more data. But the principle remains the same.

PC <--> Modem<-->VCR

so i think you may be able to use the Hi-8 camcorders recording capabilities to store data, but remember hi-8 has less bandwidth than VHS tapes (i think!)

Lets do some really basic maths (sorry for all the mistakes in advance, please correct me)

625 scan lines on VCR or 576 effective, and 720 dots per line
therefor 720*576 = 414720 total dots per two frames??

so 25(PAL) total frames a sec i.e 25/2 =12.5

therefor 12.5*414720 = 5184000 total dots a second.

for 32 bit system, ie word length is 32bits so 5184000/32 = 162000 words a second

Hmm.. ok i dont know i must admit i dont know how to fininsh this off.
I need some help on working this out, if any one can help me work out how much data that can be stored on a VHS tape it would really helpful.

Heath McKnight · December 21st, 2003, 11:49 AM

I don't think this would be possible, but I might be wrong. I'm interested to see if one of you can do it.

heath

Gordon Lupien Jr. · December 21st, 2003, 04:46 PM

Well, here's the deal:

The Sony Digital8 Camcorders are essentially DV camcorders using the Hi-8 tape transport. They record and play Hi-8 tapes recorded with the DV format. They have a firewire port and they work EXACTLY like a DV camcorder when connected to a computer. They are an inexpensive solution for editing and they have the same DV bandwidth and encoding as a DV camcorder. You can get a Digital8 camera now for under $400.

I use one of these Digital8 camcorders to back-up my DV tapes to these billions of Hi-8 tapes I have. I can also use it as a temporary storage for footage during editing, etc.

It would be nice if there was a way to dump the MPEG-2 stream out to these Digital8 tapes.

So, in response to the above posts, they are indeed Hi-8 tapes, but it is evident that the DV standard can be easily recorded on Hi-8 media. Why not do the same thing JVC is doing with the DV tape transports now, but do it with the Hi-8 transports.

Odd, but Hi-8 seems just a bit more robust to me than DV in terms of the transports.

- GLupien

Les Dit · December 21st, 2003, 06:33 PM

There are drives made for data backup on 8mm tape that could be used. I have used Exabyte drives.
Old Exabyte drives held about 2 gig. new ones are about 10 times that. They are not cheap, because they are true data drives.
The old ones are cheap, however. 2 gig is nothing these days.
There are also DLT drives, the DLT7000 holds 35 gig, and transfers about 5 meg a second. The tapes are expensive.
It's probably better to use DVD, and transcode using a codec more modern than the old mpeg-2.

-Les

Heath McKnight · December 22nd, 2003, 01:15 AM

If you can get a Digital 8 camera for $400, why not just buy a DVHS deck?

heath

Gordon Lupien Jr. · December 22nd, 2003, 09:35 PM

Heath, good point... and I have one...

I think we are simply entertaining some ideas here. Turning them over in our minds. Looking at all of the possibilities...

I personally could use a way of doing this as I have a ton of Hi-8 tapes, and I'm sure that Anhar has his reasons too.

Doesn't look like it's going anywhere though... Too bad.

- GLupien

Jeremiah Hall · January 7th, 2004, 01:18 PM

I found this one on one of the shareware sites. it's called DV Backup 1.1.5. It essentially is a backup utility using a firewire enabled camcorder and DV tape as the recording device. Cheaper than buying a dedicated tape drive, but I wouldn't want to use a camera I shot with frequently as the drive, because of wear and tear on the heads. Still, if you have an older dv camera you rarely shoot with, this mich fit the bill.

JTH

December 18th, 2003, 08:27 AM	#1
Anhar Miah Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: United Kindom, England Posts: 290	Home Made D-VHS I've been thinking about this a while back and do not know if it is possible. I remember a while back that i read about a PCI card that when installed into a PC allowed one to store data onto your vhs tape (i.e. using your VCR as a harddrive) i know that this product was used as data "backup" The problem is that i can not remenber this products name. Anyway my ideas was that would it not be possible to use this product or similar product to connect to a 'normal' VCR and transmit mt2 raw data, and also read it back? Maybe some programming may be needed? I mean itis data at the end of the day right? Sorry for all the questions. Anyway any ideas would be much appreciated.

December 20th, 2003, 08:18 AM	#2
Anhar Miah Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: United Kindom, England Posts: 290	found one lead Heres one website i've found that uses VCR as data backup heres the link: http://www.viscountvideo.com/danmere.htm and its only $69 BUT each tape can only store 4 gig so unless theres a way too modify the system its probabiliy a dead end

December 21st, 2003, 11:49 AM	#5
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I don't think this would be possible, but I might be wrong. I'm interested to see if one of you can do it. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

December 22nd, 2003, 01:15 AM	#8
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	If you can get a Digital 8 camera for $400, why not just buy a DVHS deck? heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

December 20th, 2003, 06:38 PM	#3
Gordon Lupien Jr. Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 30	I think it would be very cool to have a Digital-8 deck that would record the HD. I've got a TON of Hi-8 tapes and that would be a good use for them. Is there a way to store HD in a standard DV stream so I could use my Digital-8 camera to store HD? I'd imagine not... - GLupien

December 21st, 2003, 08:55 AM	#4
Anhar Miah Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: United Kindom, England Posts: 290	I think the above danmere solution, can be extented further in terms of capacity i'm sure it can hold much more data. But the principle remains the same. PC <--> Modem<-->VCR so i think you may be able to use the Hi-8 camcorders recording capabilities to store data, but remember hi-8 has less bandwidth than VHS tapes (i think!) Lets do some really basic maths (sorry for all the mistakes in advance, please correct me) 625 scan lines on VCR or 576 effective, and 720 dots per line therefor 720576 = 414720 total dots per two frames?? so 25(PAL) total frames a sec i.e 25/2 =12.5 therefor 12.5414720 = 5184000 total dots a second. for 32 bit system, ie word length is 32bits so 5184000/32 = 162000 words a second Hmm.. ok i dont know i must admit i dont know how to fininsh this off. I need some help on working this out, if any one can help me work out how much data that can be stored on a VHS tape it would really helpful.

December 21st, 2003, 04:46 PM	#6
Gordon Lupien Jr. Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 30	Well, here's the deal: The Sony Digital8 Camcorders are essentially DV camcorders using the Hi-8 tape transport. They record and play Hi-8 tapes recorded with the DV format. They have a firewire port and they work EXACTLY like a DV camcorder when connected to a computer. They are an inexpensive solution for editing and they have the same DV bandwidth and encoding as a DV camcorder. You can get a Digital8 camera now for under $400. I use one of these Digital8 camcorders to back-up my DV tapes to these billions of Hi-8 tapes I have. I can also use it as a temporary storage for footage during editing, etc. It would be nice if there was a way to dump the MPEG-2 stream out to these Digital8 tapes. So, in response to the above posts, they are indeed Hi-8 tapes, but it is evident that the DV standard can be easily recorded on Hi-8 media. Why not do the same thing JVC is doing with the DV tape transports now, but do it with the Hi-8 transports. Odd, but Hi-8 seems just a bit more robust to me than DV in terms of the transports. - GLupien

December 21st, 2003, 06:33 PM	#7
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	There are drives made for data backup on 8mm tape that could be used. I have used Exabyte drives. Old Exabyte drives held about 2 gig. new ones are about 10 times that. They are not cheap, because they are true data drives. The old ones are cheap, however. 2 gig is nothing these days. There are also DLT drives, the DLT7000 holds 35 gig, and transfers about 5 meg a second. The tapes are expensive. It's probably better to use DVD, and transcode using a codec more modern than the old mpeg-2. -Les

December 22nd, 2003, 09:35 PM	#9
Gordon Lupien Jr. Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 30	Heath, good point... and I have one... I think we are simply entertaining some ideas here. Turning them over in our minds. Looking at all of the possibilities... I personally could use a way of doing this as I have a ton of Hi-8 tapes, and I'm sure that Anhar has his reasons too. Doesn't look like it's going anywhere though... Too bad. - GLupien

January 7th, 2004, 01:18 PM	#10
Jeremiah Hall Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 69	I found this one on one of the shareware sites. it's called DV Backup 1.1.5. It essentially is a backup utility using a firewire enabled camcorder and DV tape as the recording device. Cheaper than buying a dedicated tape drive, but I wouldn't want to use a camera I shot with frequently as the drive, because of wear and tear on the heads. Still, if you have an older dv camera you rarely shoot with, this mich fit the bill. JTH