Maybe China will save us

[Lynne Whelden]

The latest issue of TV Technology raises some interesting questions about the HD10/1. It suggests what we always suspected--that the HD1's release last March "didn't go down well with its rivals." Meanwhile the question remains as to whether JVC will further its lead by releasing a true professional model or will it wait and see what the competition comes up with. The bottom line is this--the big boys Sony and Panasonic who have made HD synonymous with $100,000 cameras are not happy about what's happening. Which is why I'm hoping that China will break the logjam with their own version of an HDV-formatted camera. What do you think? We should know more at CES in just a couple of weeks.

[Rob Belics]

China? The hotbed of innovation?

[Lynne Whelden]

Let me quote the mag--"One insider noted the 'palpable panic' among Japanese and Korean mainstays, fraught with fear about what's coming next in HDTV or other products from China, a country that has already produced the $29 DVD player, thus altering the economics of the global hardware bazaar." I'm sure they won't jump on something unless it's massively popular but I think we'll all cheer when they come out with $500 plasmas.

[Boyd Ostroff]

<<<-- Originally posted by Lynne Whelden : a country that has already produced the $29 DVD player -->>>

A true mark of quality. But sadly, consumers can't get enough of this cheap junk. Somewhere I was just reading an account of people getting trampled in a rush for $29 DVD players at Wal Mart on "Black Friday".

[Les Dit]

you mean I'll be seeing HD cameras at my local Harbor Freight store?
China is great at copying stuff and making it for cheaper with their $0.80/hr labor force. But it's a bit harder reverse engineering the mpeg2 chips and ccd's in a camera. Even with the rampant industrial espionage they are known for, it's going to take them a while.

[Raymond Krystof]

Lynne

I don’t know about the China connection, but I might speculate on what JVC is contemplating.

I attended DV expo west last week and got some speculative information from a JVC rep. Now this is total speculation, less than a rumor and more of a WAG. The rep said he was contacted by development marketing for feed back from what he had gained from customers at DV expo and other shows he works. He also personally owns an HD10 and was displaying clips he himself captured with his camera. The speculation he derived was that JVC is working on a TRUE professional entry level HD camera that would have many of the features and refinements that have been noted as desirements on this forum. Things like full manual control, interchangeable lenses, second generation MPEG encoder, conformity to more HD standards as recently adopted by the newly established consortium, 24P, etc, etc. Then I asked him if the target pricing would be akin to the current HD1/HD10. His WAG was that it would be more in the 20K category.

In my opinion this makes pretty good sense. I think that this may be possible given the interest that the HD10 has spurred. I feel the HD10 was always aimed at the hobbyist consumer like myself. The fact that it has spawned such interest in the professional quadrant is possibly surprising to JVC and it’s competitors. I doubt that JVC or whoever is turning a blind eye to this interest. Now it might be said that 20K might blow many out of the water, but I think it would be a real coo if JVC or whoever could truly produce an HD camera in that price range that might actually compete with cinealta’s and the like.

It is always difficult to target new and unique products like the HD1/HD10. Adding some or many of the features synonymous with true professional requirements on a “first of it’s kind”, product may have priced the camera’s out of the interest and/or reach of many consumers that have bought this camera with a “well for that price I’ll give it a try” attitude. This would have lowered sales/revenue that is required to amortize development costs. Now that the concept has shown, at least some merit, I think it could conceivably take off as implied by the adoption of an inter-company standardization.

[Heath McKnight]

<<<-- Originally posted by Boyd Ostroff : Somewhere I was just reading an account of people getting trampled in a rush for $29 DVD players at Wal Mart on "Black Friday". -->>>

Boyd, that lady that was trampled is a "frequent faller." She's in a lot of trouble after an anonymous tip went out to an Orlando TV station. They did research and found out she does this on and off the job all the time.

Sorry to go off the subject.

heath

[Heath McKnight]

<<<-- Originally posted by Raymond KrystofThe fact that it has spawned such interest in the professional quadrant is possibly surprising to JVC and it’s competitors. -->>>

It did, but JVC ALWAYS marketed the HD10 as a pro camera in their pro section.

heath

[Les Dit]

I think JVC may be calling it a 'Pro' camera to attract the pro-sumer type of buyer. It has nothing to do with actually selling to professionals. Just looking at my user manual depresses me, they spend a good portion of it talking about how to use the 'DSC" or digital still camera. What a total waste of firmware resources! It's all some JVC board room 'I think it will sell better if ...' meeting of totally misinformed and out of touch fat cats in suits. They don't use the camera themselves. If they wanted it to be just *slightly* more sell-able to the pro type market, they would have added the full manual control. It would have cost zero, and would take about 1/100 the time the software-firmware engineers spent on the useless digital still camera.
This is not intended as a pro camera, because they aren't that stupid. It's intended for family users with that 'camcorder stoop', you know the ones, the Daddy taking video of baby's first steps, holding the cam out in front, and stooped over like a duck.
But anyways, that's the camera I have, and I'm happy they are selling it at a consumer price point!
-Les

[Peter Robert]

Les,

I totally agree with you. I bought my HD1 since it was first launched. I had some hard time to adapt to it by switching from auto or manual settings. I had to put an extra light for indoor shooting. Now, I can manage to use it at anytime and anywhere.

This camera is sold at a price to prosumer. Not professionals! People who always requests for professional features in HD1/10 is actually asking for a Rolls Royce but only pays a price for a Toyota.

[Raymond Krystof]

I totally agree with Les and Peter

If you take a look at the JVC consumer web site I think it pretty apparent these camera’s are aimed at consumers and prosumers with high definition television and theater systems. There is a link on the consumer JVC site to the “Pro” site. I don’t criticize JVC to calling the HD10 a “Pro” model. “Pro”, “professional strength”, “industrial strength” etc are commonly used for all types of products.

Before I purchased my HD10 I read the user manual on the JVC site. I also joined this forum to get as much information as I could to make a valued judgment whether this camera was right for me. As such I knew what to expect and I’m very happy with my decision.

[Heath McKnight]

We're doing a short film on Saturday, maybe 3 minutes long, mostly just to see how everything works. Jon Fordham is DP-ing, and we don't have to worry about rights on the footage! I'll have a site up with clips, story, etc., in about a month.

heath

[Louis Grimaldo]

i just ordered the HD10u from B&H. I should be getting it tommorrow. I start shooting a feature about a standup comedian in January which means i only have three weeks to get to fully understand this camera. Trying to decide between the DVX100 and the Hd10u has been an agonizing decision. I am ashamed to admit it but I spent more time agonizing over this decision than I did over picking my actors. I think i have immersed myself to much into the technical aspects of filmmaking and not enough time on my craft. My DP is very worried about using this camera because he has heard so many bad things about it. Hopefully once he sees the images his mind will be put at rest. I will have my own reveiw next week.

Louis

[Heath McKnight]

Shoot like a film camera (or high end DP), light it good, focus on the CRAFT not the TECH (I fell into that trap for two years and spent A LOT of money), relax.

heath