First impressions: HD10 vs. Varicam, from Jon the DP at DVinfo.net

Heath McKnight · November 9th, 2003, 12:50 PM

Okay, in the brief 10 minutes talking to Jon the DP Friday night (while I was working a 14 hour day, d'oh!), he gave me a couple of impressions. An extensive review will be posted up some time this week.

1. One scene they shot was in a mahogany bar with white guys wearing dark suits and white shirts. And it was lit to be "dark," like a typical bar. So he had some "issues" with the HD10, but that's because the Varicam's gamma control can be adjusted and the HD10...Well, it can't. :-)

2. He said he wants to test the HD10 with his DVX100 (it's rented out right now) to see which camera is sharper, but he claims the HD10's image is "razor sharp."

3. The controls suck, but that's obvious. he said the +/- 10 was lame, as was trying to adjust the shutter, having it change when we adjusted the F-stop. MANUAL MANUAL MANUAL (hear that, JVC, etc.?!?!)!

That's all we really talked about. He said the HD10's image was razor sharp, which is a HUGE plus. He also wants to grab a shot or two on both cameras of a well-lit, more colorful scene (as opposed to a slightly dark, mostly black and white settings and costumes scene) to test the HD10 and color.

More ASAP! (And if I got any of this wrong or forgot something, as I was REALLY tired and busy, too, I will correct per Jon's requests.)

heath

Christopher C. Murphy · November 9th, 2003, 03:16 PM

Thanks Heath (and your friends) - you guys rock!

Chris

Heath McKnight · November 9th, 2003, 05:51 PM

I just wish I was in NYC, not WPB, FL.

heath

Chris Hurd · November 9th, 2003, 08:42 PM

I'd rather be in WPB, FL than Chicago where I just came from -- man, it's getting cold up there.

Let me know when you've got some clips ready, Heath, and I'll send ya the FTP info.

Daymon Hoffman · November 9th, 2003, 09:49 PM

i would like to see native clips if possible. Not down rezzed ones. Please. *beg*. :D

Heath McKnight · November 9th, 2003, 11:52 PM

I'll ask Jon, because he's downconverted the HD10 video to 480i (I think).

I think he was gonna clone them; there might be some problems with the Varicam direct footage (ie, native) with the (c) holders. I don't think they mind the downconverts. Filmmakers get sensitive about that! I'll double check, though. Jon will have to submit those clips; maybe making jpegs of the frames is best, size-wise.

I'm not expecting any tapes until the end of the week.

heath

Daymon Hoffman · November 10th, 2003, 12:02 AM

Thanks Heath. Just be good to have some footage for comparison from a "virtually imposible to get" camera for little ol' me. Plus i'm sure some other guys would love to compare 720p with 720p even though we know it'll be a wh00pin'.

Heath McKnight · November 10th, 2003, 12:06 AM

Yeah, 720p $150,000 camera vs. 720p $3200 really spells it out for us! ;-)

I've never worked with anything more advanced than the pricey HD cameras on the floor of the TV station I work at.

heath

Daymon Hoffman · November 10th, 2003, 12:12 AM

Damn dont stress just how low my chances are of ever even seeing one of those cams :P. But yeah seriously though, be good to be able to get my hands on a bit of native footage to be able to compare and use as a benchmark for all these future HDV Cams we are going to get! (we wish maybe?) :-)

Heath McKnight · November 10th, 2003, 12:57 AM

You will, esp. when the new ones come out and the "old" ones are cheap to rent. $1500 a day is a LOT of cash!

heath

Martin Munthe · November 10th, 2003, 04:16 AM

The list price for the VariCam in $63K. It's an amazing camera that IMHO outshines most 1080p competitors in 720p. Check out the sharpness:
http://www.pixelmonger.com/hd_assets/cam27V.jpg

Daymon Hoffman · November 10th, 2003, 07:47 AM

Is that for real Martin?! oh my... that just about puts my G3 to shame :D

Heath McKnight · November 10th, 2003, 08:57 AM

Yah, but the Varicam, with proper outfitting, can cost around $150,000. My buddy Jon talked me OUT of buying one earlier this year. Glad he did! I need to buy a house first!

heath

Chris Hurd · November 10th, 2003, 09:05 AM

You know the whole "new house -- vs. new VariCam" decision can be a difficult one, but if you break it down by priorities, then you'll make the right choice. A VariCam would just about pay off my mortgage.

After we see what Heath and Jon the DP have to say, I was just thinking, I know a VariCam owner in L.A. and I could probably get them an HD10 loaner for awhile and get their impressions about it. If y'all are interested. After this current deal, of course.

Heath McKnight · November 10th, 2003, 09:12 AM

That would be a great idea!

One thing I forgot to mention, Jon also works with the CineAlta, so I'll see if he can do some comparisons with it and the HD10, too, eventually.

heath

November 9th, 2003, 12:50 PM	#1
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	First impressions: HD10 vs. Varicam, from Jon the DP Okay, in the brief 10 minutes talking to Jon the DP Friday night (while I was working a 14 hour day, d'oh!), he gave me a couple of impressions. An extensive review will be posted up some time this week. 1. One scene they shot was in a mahogany bar with white guys wearing dark suits and white shirts. And it was lit to be "dark," like a typical bar. So he had some "issues" with the HD10, but that's because the Varicam's gamma control can be adjusted and the HD10...Well, it can't. :-) 2. He said he wants to test the HD10 with his DVX100 (it's rented out right now) to see which camera is sharper, but he claims the HD10's image is "razor sharp." 3. The controls suck, but that's obvious. he said the +/- 10 was lame, as was trying to adjust the shutter, having it change when we adjusted the F-stop. MANUAL MANUAL MANUAL (hear that, JVC, etc.?!?!)! That's all we really talked about. He said the HD10's image was razor sharp, which is a HUGE plus. He also wants to grab a shot or two on both cameras of a well-lit, more colorful scene (as opposed to a slightly dark, mostly black and white settings and costumes scene) to test the HD10 and color. More ASAP! (And if I got any of this wrong or forgot something, as I was REALLY tired and busy, too, I will correct per Jon's requests.) heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

November 9th, 2003, 05:51 PM	#3
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I just wish I was in NYC, not WPB, FL. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

November 9th, 2003, 08:42 PM	#4
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	I'd rather be in WPB, FL than Chicago where I just came from -- man, it's getting cold up there. Let me know when you've got some clips ready, Heath, and I'll send ya the FTP info. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

November 9th, 2003, 09:49 PM	#5
Daymon Hoffman Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 267	i would like to see native clips if possible. Not down rezzed ones. Please. beg. :D __________________ Welcome... to the real world!

November 9th, 2003, 11:52 PM	#6
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I'll ask Jon, because he's downconverted the HD10 video to 480i (I think). I think he was gonna clone them; there might be some problems with the Varicam direct footage (ie, native) with the (c) holders. I don't think they mind the downconverts. Filmmakers get sensitive about that! I'll double check, though. Jon will have to submit those clips; maybe making jpegs of the frames is best, size-wise. I'm not expecting any tapes until the end of the week. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

November 9th, 2003, 03:16 PM	#2
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	Thanks Heath (and your friends) - you guys rock! Chris

November 10th, 2003, 12:02 AM	#7
Daymon Hoffman Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 267	Thanks Heath. Just be good to have some footage for comparison from a "virtually imposible to get" camera for little ol' me. Plus i'm sure some other guys would love to compare 720p with 720p even though we know it'll be a wh00pin'. __________________ Welcome... to the real world!

November 10th, 2003, 12:06 AM	#8
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Yeah, 720p $150,000 camera vs. 720p $3200 really spells it out for us! ;-) I've never worked with anything more advanced than the pricey HD cameras on the floor of the TV station I work at. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

November 10th, 2003, 12:12 AM	#9
Daymon Hoffman Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 267	Damn dont stress just how low my chances are of ever even seeing one of those cams :P. But yeah seriously though, be good to be able to get my hands on a bit of native footage to be able to compare and use as a benchmark for all these future HDV Cams we are going to get! (we wish maybe?) :-) __________________ Welcome... to the real world!

November 10th, 2003, 12:57 AM	#10
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	You will, esp. when the new ones come out and the "old" ones are cheap to rent. $1500 a day is a LOT of cash! heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

November 10th, 2003, 04:16 AM	#11
Martin Munthe Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 331	The list price for the VariCam in $63K. It's an amazing camera that IMHO outshines most 1080p competitors in 720p. Check out the sharpness: http://www.pixelmonger.com/hd_assets/cam27V.jpg __________________ Martin Munthe VFX Supervisor/DP/Director

November 10th, 2003, 07:47 AM	#12
Daymon Hoffman Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 267	Is that for real Martin?! oh my... that just about puts my G3 to shame :D __________________ Welcome... to the real world!

November 10th, 2003, 08:57 AM	#13
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Yah, but the Varicam, with proper outfitting, can cost around $150,000. My buddy Jon talked me OUT of buying one earlier this year. Glad he did! I need to buy a house first! heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

November 10th, 2003, 09:05 AM	#14
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	You know the whole "new house -- vs. new VariCam" decision can be a difficult one, but if you break it down by priorities, then you'll make the right choice. A VariCam would just about pay off my mortgage. After we see what Heath and Jon the DP have to say, I was just thinking, I know a VariCam owner in L.A. and I could probably get them an HD10 loaner for awhile and get their impressions about it. If y'all are interested. After this current deal, of course. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

November 10th, 2003, 09:12 AM	#15
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	That would be a great idea! One thing I forgot to mention, Jon also works with the CineAlta, so I'll see if he can do some comparisons with it and the HD10, too, eventually. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog