Hidden service menus?

Xander Christ · July 2nd, 2005, 03:04 AM

So, I got my hands on the HD10U's service manual (thanks, Patrick!). Does anyone have one of those JLIP serial cables for connecting a PC to the camcorder?

Patrick Jenkins · July 2nd, 2005, 09:34 AM

Here's a rough schematic to build one (midway down) + looks like a ton of info for debugging.

http://pagina.vizzavi.pt/~ng93827a/JVC/

Xander Christ · July 2nd, 2005, 12:00 PM

You wanna build it for me? I have no clue how to read that.

Xander Christ · July 11th, 2005, 05:15 AM

In furthering my investigation into this hacking project, a very knowledgeable JVC dealer told me that there have been modifications to the HD10U since its release. From trying to read between the lines of what the dealer was 'saying' without saying it (NDA?? He would neither confirm nor deny this), several hardware changes have been made without the model number changing. This would lead to different firmware floating around.

The HD10U that I have access to was made in 10/03, so I'm assuming this has the 'original' programming. Does anyone have a camera that was made in '05? I'd like to compare the bit changes. If you do have an '05 camera that I can borrow, contact me off list, or if you know where I can rent one, please tell me.

Murad Toor · July 11th, 2005, 05:31 AM

Xander, that begs the question of how to determine one's camera's firmware version. My HD10 was in for service for two months between December 2004 and February 2005 for a CCD block replacement under warranty. I'm wondering if there's any way to determine whether they upgraded my firmware in the process. They had enough time.

Ken Hodson · July 11th, 2005, 11:45 AM

When many of us here were battleing out the complexities of manual controll or lack of, it seemed that there were some differances in how the cams reacted. Although this could be put down as user error in the experiments it could be a sign of different firmwares. Our cam would always revert to 1/30th shutter at 720p and 1/60th when in 480p.
I have searched the net the best I could, have found one site where the guy had turned of edge enhancement on his PAL PD1. If this could be done for an HD1 it would make this cam a real bargin.
Please keep us posted if anyone finds anything.

Xander Christ · July 11th, 2005, 01:51 PM

Yeah, I've seen the guy's edge enhancement bit change for the PD1. I've emailed him too to see if he has discovered anything new since then. According to the thread that he's on, JVC had something to say about his modifying the firmware and that's why that particular thread slowed down; but the babelfish translation leaves alot to be desired and I can only pick out bits and pieces from the original French text (I took two years of French in high school; alors, je ne comprende pas boucoup). I checked the HD10U's manual for any "legalities" of moding the camera and couldn't find any. I don't think hardware carries "licensing" restrictions like computer software has.

I basically have two goals with HD10U: 1.) enable concurrent manual override of aperture and shutter, 2.) to see if there is a 25p (or even the rumored 24p) recording mode. If it's easy enough, I'll look into image settings to see if I can reduce the contrast of the 10U to bring out details in black and minimize the brightness clipping... something more logarithmic rather than "cinematone".

Murad, I'll get back to you with how to tell what firmware is installed on the camera when I get access to one again sometime next week.

Aver Mapub · July 14th, 2005, 12:46 AM

Dear Xander, Patrick,

How can I get a copy of the service manual? Is it available as a PDF file? I bought my HD-10 about a month ago and am interested in exploring what is
available thru service menus. The camcorder has already made a trip to
JVC for repair and I am not feeling good about it. It corrupted two tapes
thathad important recordings. There may be some information in the
service manual that I could use.

Thanks.

Xander Christ · July 14th, 2005, 11:27 AM

The service manual isn't going to tell you how to modify the camera unless you're an electrician. Then you'll have to use resistors or whatnots to mod the camera to change the signal. The service manual is really nothing but disassembly directions to get to the components; it also contains the entire bill-of-materials ("BOM") for the camera, so if a technician needs to order a part, he has all the part numbers.

THERE ARE NO SERVICE MENUS ON THE HD10U.

The JLIP connector that is used for servicing the camera is not the normal JLIP device that ships with consumer camcorders for video capture and control. The "service menus" are actually a separate piece of software that runs on a PC. The technician makes the mods on the pc and then uploads it to the camcorder via the JLIP port.

To find out which bits do what, I've been making changes using the menu options and then downloading the EEPROM data to compare with the original data I downloaded before I began. I haven't figured out how to write back to the EEPROM.

Wayne Morellini · July 15th, 2005, 03:08 AM

I haven't read through all this, but there is a way to program the PD/HD cameras through hidden serial port, and people are using it for frame-rate (PD1) and other camera settings. There is information on the camcorderinfo site, and I think I posted information on it (and links to the original French site) in the dvinfo alternative information imaging forums.

Ken Hodson · July 15th, 2005, 04:21 AM

Anyway you could be of help by remembering and reposting the info or a least providing us with a link?

Allen Lu · July 15th, 2005, 08:49 AM

http://www.repaire.net/forums/showth...0&pagenumber=1

Links from "kandinsky" has a lot of info..

Leo Bodnar · July 15th, 2005, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xander Christ

Yeah, I've seen the guy's edge enhancement bit change for the PD1. I've emailed him too to see if he has discovered anything new since then.

I apologise for not coming back earlier. Life took me away from PD1 for awhile! I am planning to do some more hacking asap.

I don't have any secret knowledge about PD1 apart from service manuals (schematic and exploded views.) I have made a JLIP cable and was playing around with EEPROM contents, trying to correlate to the known EEPROMs of other JVC cameras. That gave very scarce and useless information (mostly recording circuits settings, etc)

In the end I have started to alter every single byte of EEPROM to see what happens. I have run across few interesting areas: something looking like image softness, colour matrix values (how RGB colours are deduced from Green-Yellow-Cyan-White matrix) and colour correction.

As everybody else I was hoping to get 24p or 720p25 but I did not find anything that looks like that. It is not a single bit that needs changing but a host of parameters: timing, CCD offsets, number of pixels per line, recording density?

I was really hoping to compare EEPROMs of PD1, HD1 and HD10 but I only have PD1 at the moment...

HDV is moving in fast so probably the motivation to squeeze more out of PD1 will be disappearing really fast keeping in mind that as a camera, PD1 is pretty mediocre (dark sensitivity, colour gamut, energy consumption)... Unless, of course, there is still an interest.

What do you think and where do you suggest we go next with PD1?

Allen Lu · July 15th, 2005, 06:50 PM

I am still very interested since I just got my HD1 in June. I'm a bit scared to do a dump of the HD1 but if the cable is right for you to do it on the PD1, I think I should be able to do a dump for you to compare.

Is your JLIP cable the same as the one featured in this links picture?

http://pagina.vizzavi.pt/~ng93827a/JVC/

I'm hoping to reduce the edge enhancement on the HD1.

Ken Hodson · July 15th, 2005, 07:55 PM

Is it possible for us to send you eeprom dumps for comparison?
I think the main intrest lies in in the fact that the HD series is still the only progressive HDV on the market, and if the edge enhancement of the HD1 could be corrected to match the HD10, it would make it a steal on the used maket.

July 2nd, 2005, 03:04 AM	#46
Xander Christ Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 115	So, I got my hands on the HD10U's service manual (thanks, Patrick!). Does anyone have one of those JLIP serial cables for connecting a PC to the camcorder? Last edited by Xander Christ; July 2nd, 2005 at 04:58 AM.

July 2nd, 2005, 09:34 AM	#47
Patrick Jenkins Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 382	Here's a rough schematic to build one (midway down) + looks like a ton of info for debugging. http://pagina.vizzavi.pt/~ng93827a/JVC/ __________________ PAL shooter in NTSC territory

July 11th, 2005, 11:45 AM	#51
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	When many of us here were battleing out the complexities of manual controll or lack of, it seemed that there were some differances in how the cams reacted. Although this could be put down as user error in the experiments it could be a sign of different firmwares. Our cam would always revert to 1/30th shutter at 720p and 1/60th when in 480p. I have searched the net the best I could, have found one site where the guy had turned of edge enhancement on his PAL PD1. If this could be done for an HD1 it would make this cam a real bargin. Please keep us posted if anyone finds anything. __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

July 14th, 2005, 12:46 AM	#53
Aver Mapub Tourist Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4	Service Manual Dear Xander, Patrick, How can I get a copy of the service manual? Is it available as a PDF file? I bought my HD-10 about a month ago and am interested in exploring what is available thru service menus. The camcorder has already made a trip to JVC for repair and I am not feeling good about it. It corrupted two tapes thathad important recordings. There may be some information in the service manual that I could use. Thanks.

July 15th, 2005, 04:21 AM	#56
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	Anyway you could be of help by remembering and reposting the info or a least providing us with a link? __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

July 2nd, 2005, 12:00 PM	#48
Xander Christ Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 115	You wanna build it for me? I have no clue how to read that.

July 11th, 2005, 05:15 AM	#49
Xander Christ Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 115	In furthering my investigation into this hacking project, a very knowledgeable JVC dealer told me that there have been modifications to the HD10U since its release. From trying to read between the lines of what the dealer was 'saying' without saying it (NDA?? He would neither confirm nor deny this), several hardware changes have been made without the model number changing. This would lead to different firmware floating around. The HD10U that I have access to was made in 10/03, so I'm assuming this has the 'original' programming. Does anyone have a camera that was made in '05? I'd like to compare the bit changes. If you do have an '05 camera that I can borrow, contact me off list, or if you know where I can rent one, please tell me.

July 11th, 2005, 05:31 AM	#50
Murad Toor Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 125	Xander, that begs the question of how to determine one's camera's firmware version. My HD10 was in for service for two months between December 2004 and February 2005 for a CCD block replacement under warranty. I'm wondering if there's any way to determine whether they upgraded my firmware in the process. They had enough time.

July 11th, 2005, 01:51 PM	#52
Xander Christ Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 115	Yeah, I've seen the guy's edge enhancement bit change for the PD1. I've emailed him too to see if he has discovered anything new since then. According to the thread that he's on, JVC had something to say about his modifying the firmware and that's why that particular thread slowed down; but the babelfish translation leaves alot to be desired and I can only pick out bits and pieces from the original French text (I took two years of French in high school; alors, je ne comprende pas boucoup). I checked the HD10U's manual for any "legalities" of moding the camera and couldn't find any. I don't think hardware carries "licensing" restrictions like computer software has. I basically have two goals with HD10U: 1.) enable concurrent manual override of aperture and shutter, 2.) to see if there is a 25p (or even the rumored 24p) recording mode. If it's easy enough, I'll look into image settings to see if I can reduce the contrast of the 10U to bring out details in black and minimize the brightness clipping... something more logarithmic rather than "cinematone". Murad, I'll get back to you with how to tell what firmware is installed on the camera when I get access to one again sometime next week.

July 14th, 2005, 11:27 AM	#54
Xander Christ Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 115	The service manual isn't going to tell you how to modify the camera unless you're an electrician. Then you'll have to use resistors or whatnots to mod the camera to change the signal. The service manual is really nothing but disassembly directions to get to the components; it also contains the entire bill-of-materials ("BOM") for the camera, so if a technician needs to order a part, he has all the part numbers. THERE ARE NO SERVICE MENUS ON THE HD10U. The JLIP connector that is used for servicing the camera is not the normal JLIP device that ships with consumer camcorders for video capture and control. The "service menus" are actually a separate piece of software that runs on a PC. The technician makes the mods on the pc and then uploads it to the camcorder via the JLIP port. To find out which bits do what, I've been making changes using the menu options and then downloading the EEPROM data to compare with the original data I downloaded before I began. I haven't figured out how to write back to the EEPROM.

July 15th, 2005, 03:08 AM	#55
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	I haven't read through all this, but there is a way to program the PD/HD cameras through hidden serial port, and people are using it for frame-rate (PD1) and other camera settings. There is information on the camcorderinfo site, and I think I posted information on it (and links to the original French site) in the dvinfo alternative information imaging forums.

July 15th, 2005, 08:49 AM	#57
Allen Lu Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 65	http://www.repaire.net/forums/showth...0&pagenumber=1 Links from "kandinsky" has a lot of info.. Last edited by Allen Lu; July 15th, 2005 at 04:28 PM.

July 15th, 2005, 06:50 PM	#59
Allen Lu Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 65	I am still very interested since I just got my HD1 in June. I'm a bit scared to do a dump of the HD1 but if the cable is right for you to do it on the PD1, I think I should be able to do a dump for you to compare. Is your JLIP cable the same as the one featured in this links picture? http://pagina.vizzavi.pt/~ng93827a/JVC/ I'm hoping to reduce the edge enhancement on the HD1.

July 15th, 2005, 07:55 PM	#60
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	Is it possible for us to send you eeprom dumps for comparison? I think the main intrest lies in in the fact that the HD series is still the only progressive HDV on the market, and if the edge enhancement of the HD1 could be corrected to match the HD10, it would make it a steal on the used maket. __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.