OK, is there a A/B compare of HD1 vs 3chip DV?

Paul Mogg · November 2nd, 2003, 07:00 PM

I color correct pretty much everthing I do anyway, so the color is a non-issue to me, in fact I prefer the JVC color as it is more "real-world" color to me, and not as artificially (electronically) saturated as most DV cam footage tends to be, which gives me a better base to work from, so long as it was lit and shot well that is.

Troy Lamont · November 2nd, 2003, 09:50 PM

Quote:

I think if you look at DV day in and day out, you get so used to the low spacial resolution, that anything with more detail looks strange and odd.

I think that about sums it up....

Barry,

My comments weren't posted towards you in any way, except to say thanks which I forgot to do. I read into the setup of the shots and apologize for mistating that the shots weren't set up properly.

I'd still like to state that some of the 'plasticky' feel of the camera can be controlled once a greater understanding of what the camera can offer and what type of look you'd like to obtain from it.

Yang,

I don't think the colors are that much more undersaturated than a good 3 CCD camera. If you read through some of these posts in the forum and a couple of the online or print reviews, you'd see that the general concensus is that the color is great for a 1 CCD beast. Also, with a little touch up on post like Paul does, the difference in resolution is much better and sooo much more worth it. Check out Jeff's review of the color here

But I think that for most, the benefit of the camera would be for HD and utilizing that going forward. Downsizing HD to SD is just a plus, and a damn good one at that based on Barry's examples.

Quote:

Just for kicks, I loaded a still from both DV and HD into Photoshop. A Gaussian blur of 1.9 pixels made the image look very close to the DV, as in blurry. A little Saturation started making it look candy coated, like the DV stuff.

Funny stuff!!!!!!

Troy

Chaim Bianco · November 2nd, 2003, 10:35 PM

are you the pixel harvest guy?

Les Dit · November 2nd, 2003, 10:54 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Chaim Bianco : are you the pixel harvest guy? -->>>
Indeed I am!
-Les

Adrian Douglas · November 3rd, 2003, 07:22 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Troy LaMont : It seems to me that you're not the cutting edge type of person, but someone that's more at home with fuzzy lo-res video. I'm not sure what your definition of harsh is, but those clips looked far from harsh to my eyes. The resolution difference is astonishing to say the least and with the way the clips were presented, it amazes me that someone could actually prefer the standard DV to HDV! Maybe you're just not used to viewing HD footage or ready for the jump in resolution. -->>>

Well I guess I'm not "cutting edge" as you put it. Hell, I'm still using an EOS1n and a 4 year old XL1. However, I don't feel the need to jump on the bandwagon of every little 'new gadget' that comes along. Sure the JVC cams are a step towards something better but they still have a long way to go. For low budget docos they seem like they could be useful but still not in a professional league by a long shot.

As for not being used to HD footage, here in Japan a lot of broadcast content is shot on HD and it looks clear and sharp but it lacks any warmth and character, the colours are great but it looks so real that it almost distracting. For dramatic work I like the softness of DV. If I was shooting a commercial training doco or the something technicial then HD would be the go, but not these JVCs. I guess I'll stay on the blunt side until we get cams with better functions, controls and lenses, not to mention native editing solutions that don't require all sorts of plug-ins etc. Where would we be if it wasn't for guys like Steve Mullen and his 4HDV package.

Like I said in my previous post 'it all depends on the look you want to achieve', for some it's HDV, for others it's DV.

Shane Walker · November 3rd, 2003, 01:56 PM

I've been wanting direct view comparison and a calm objective discussion of these camera's footage/qualities for a while. I thought the 'Which is better, Pan or JVC' thread would go in this direction, but c'est la vie.

Thanks to all involved for providing the goods...

Eric Bilodeau · November 3rd, 2003, 09:39 PM

Good to see the discussion going. I think it is pretty evident that the JVC's definition is a very noticeable leap over SD. Edge enhancement is indeed very evident on the HD1 compared to what I am used with the HD10. You can see this out of focus situation created by the lack of definition as I noticed in my own tests involving the HD10 and the DVX. I personnaly de-saturate when I work in DV so the difference in saturation does not bother me at all, I would even say, to me, it is a good point for the JVC. Edge enhancement in the case of the HD10 was pretty similar (even lower in some cases) than the DVX's edge enhancement (oh yes, there is edge enhancement on the DVX, but, as other 3CCD's, it is apparent mostly in very sharp bright/dark edge borders, like light reflection on chrome tubing for example). Of course, I did the tests with ND filters on the JVC.

Chris Hurd · November 17th, 2003, 12:18 PM

See also http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=17040. Hope this helps,

Darren Kelly · November 17th, 2003, 01:05 PM

I am showing this on the JumpStart DVD as well as comparisons to the Cinealta camera.

The JVC cameras compare well to the 3 chip DV cameras such as the PD150 and the PDX100. These are the ones we are showing.

I'm not finished the section on this yet (just got the Cinealta footage on Friday) but I might sell my PD150 pased on the image quality.

DBK

Young Lee · November 17th, 2003, 06:14 PM

I don't like the color from the HD1, but I sure like the higher resolution!!

Glenn Gipson · November 17th, 2003, 10:37 PM

For what it's worth, I like the JVC footage better. But I guess this stuff is very subjective.

Eric Bilodeau · November 17th, 2003, 10:51 PM

Moviemaking is somewhat pretty subjective too... so choosing your language has to be equally private... Don't worry guys, both your impressions are good. Diversity is what makes indie filmmaking so rich... HDV is just another penball pen for us to use on plain paper, some people will spill the ink, some other will make a mess but there will be some that will sign their name with grace using it ;)

Dustin Cross · November 20th, 2003, 02:11 PM

Can someone shoot a colorchart with a DVX and the JVC side by side and both at 30p? I would like to see one frame from each camera.

Heath McKnight · November 20th, 2003, 02:58 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Eric Bilodeau : Moviemaking is somewhat pretty subjective too... so choosing your language has to be equally private... Don't worry guys, both your impressions are good. Diversity is what makes indie filmmaking so rich... HDV is just another penball pen for us to use on plain paper, some people will spill the ink, some other will make a mess but there will be some that will sign their name with grace using it ;) -->>>

Good analogy, Eric.

hwm

Barry Green · December 8th, 2003, 06:10 PM

Okay, this old footage is now outdated -- turns out Vegas doesn't do a very sharp up-rez to HD from SD footage, so the DVX wasn't showing as well as it could.

I've re-done the footage, using DVX100 footage up-rezzed using S-SPline Pro. Ignore the old high-rez clip, and use this one as your basis for comparison instead:

http://66.78.26.9/~fiercely/DVXvsJVC/NewDVXvsJVC.mpg

November 2nd, 2003, 07:00 PM	#16
Paul Mogg Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Francisco CA Posts: 386	I color correct pretty much everthing I do anyway, so the color is a non-issue to me, in fact I prefer the JVC color as it is more "real-world" color to me, and not as artificially (electronically) saturated as most DV cam footage tends to be, which gives me a better base to work from, so long as it was lit and shot well that is. __________________ Paul

November 2nd, 2003, 10:35 PM	#18
Chaim Bianco Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Philadelphia , PA Posts: 39	yo, les dit ! are you the pixel harvest guy?

November 2nd, 2003, 10:54 PM	#19
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	Re: yo, les dit ! <<<-- Originally posted by Chaim Bianco : are you the pixel harvest guy? -->>> Indeed I am! -Les

November 3rd, 2003, 07:22 AM	#20
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	<<<-- Originally posted by Troy LaMont : It seems to me that you're not the cutting edge type of person, but someone that's more at home with fuzzy lo-res video. I'm not sure what your definition of harsh is, but those clips looked far from harsh to my eyes. The resolution difference is astonishing to say the least and with the way the clips were presented, it amazes me that someone could actually prefer the standard DV to HDV! Maybe you're just not used to viewing HD footage or ready for the jump in resolution. -->>> Well I guess I'm not "cutting edge" as you put it. Hell, I'm still using an EOS1n and a 4 year old XL1. However, I don't feel the need to jump on the bandwagon of every little 'new gadget' that comes along. Sure the JVC cams are a step towards something better but they still have a long way to go. For low budget docos they seem like they could be useful but still not in a professional league by a long shot. As for not being used to HD footage, here in Japan a lot of broadcast content is shot on HD and it looks clear and sharp but it lacks any warmth and character, the colours are great but it looks so real that it almost distracting. For dramatic work I like the softness of DV. If I was shooting a commercial training doco or the something technicial then HD would be the go, but not these JVCs. I guess I'll stay on the blunt side until we get cams with better functions, controls and lenses, not to mention native editing solutions that don't require all sorts of plug-ins etc. Where would we be if it wasn't for guys like Steve Mullen and his 4HDV package. Like I said in my previous post 'it all depends on the look you want to achieve', for some it's HDV, for others it's DV. __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

November 3rd, 2003, 01:56 PM	#21
Shane Walker New Boot Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Chicago, IL USA Posts: 11	great stuff, keep this thread going... I've been wanting direct view comparison and a calm objective discussion of these camera's footage/qualities for a while. I thought the 'Which is better, Pan or JVC' thread would go in this direction, but c'est la vie. Thanks to all involved for providing the goods...

November 3rd, 2003, 09:39 PM	#22
Eric Bilodeau Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chicoutimi, Canada Posts: 334	Good to see the discussion going. I think it is pretty evident that the JVC's definition is a very noticeable leap over SD. Edge enhancement is indeed very evident on the HD1 compared to what I am used with the HD10. You can see this out of focus situation created by the lack of definition as I noticed in my own tests involving the HD10 and the DVX. I personnaly de-saturate when I work in DV so the difference in saturation does not bother me at all, I would even say, to me, it is a good point for the JVC. Edge enhancement in the case of the HD10 was pretty similar (even lower in some cases) than the DVX's edge enhancement (oh yes, there is edge enhancement on the DVX, but, as other 3CCD's, it is apparent mostly in very sharp bright/dark edge borders, like light reflection on chrome tubing for example). Of course, I did the tests with ND filters on the JVC. __________________ Eric Bilodeau video SFX,DOP ___________________ http://www.fictis.net info@fictis.net

November 17th, 2003, 12:18 PM	#23
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	See also http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=17040. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

November 17th, 2003, 01:05 PM	#24
Darren Kelly Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver Posts: 351	I am showing this on the JumpStart DVD as well as comparisons to the Cinealta camera. The JVC cameras compare well to the 3 chip DV cameras such as the PD150 and the PDX100. These are the ones we are showing. I'm not finished the section on this yet (just got the Cinealta footage on Friday) but I might sell my PD150 pased on the image quality. DBK __________________ Darren Kelly

November 17th, 2003, 06:14 PM	#25
Young Lee Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 268	I don't like the color from the HD1, but I sure like the higher resolution!!

November 17th, 2003, 10:37 PM	#26
Glenn Gipson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Plainfield, New Jersey Posts: 927	For what it's worth, I like the JVC footage better. But I guess this stuff is very subjective.

November 17th, 2003, 10:51 PM	#27
Eric Bilodeau Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chicoutimi, Canada Posts: 334	Moviemaking is somewhat pretty subjective too... so choosing your language has to be equally private... Don't worry guys, both your impressions are good. Diversity is what makes indie filmmaking so rich... HDV is just another penball pen for us to use on plain paper, some people will spill the ink, some other will make a mess but there will be some that will sign their name with grace using it ;) __________________ Eric Bilodeau video SFX,DOP ___________________ http://www.fictis.net info@fictis.net

November 20th, 2003, 02:11 PM	#28
Dustin Cross Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 133	Can someone shoot a colorchart with a DVX and the JVC side by side and both at 30p? I would like to see one frame from each camera. __________________ Mahalo, Dusty

November 20th, 2003, 02:58 PM	#29
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	<<<-- Originally posted by Eric Bilodeau : Moviemaking is somewhat pretty subjective too... so choosing your language has to be equally private... Don't worry guys, both your impressions are good. Diversity is what makes indie filmmaking so rich... HDV is just another penball pen for us to use on plain paper, some people will spill the ink, some other will make a mess but there will be some that will sign their name with grace using it ;) -->>> Good analogy, Eric. hwm __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

December 8th, 2003, 06:10 PM	#30
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Okay, this old footage is now outdated -- turns out Vegas doesn't do a very sharp up-rez to HD from SD footage, so the DVX wasn't showing as well as it could. I've re-done the footage, using DVX100 footage up-rezzed using S-SPline Pro. Ignore the old high-rez clip, and use this one as your basis for comparison instead: http://66.78.26.9/~fiercely/DVXvsJVC/NewDVXvsJVC.mpg