30fps to 24p?

[Josef Crow]

been lurking on this forum for awhile. This is gonna sound crazy but....

How about using the old "Kinescope" technique to convert 30fps to 24p? Specifically, how about filming a very good LCD monitor (flicker-less) with a 24p (16 or 35mm) camera.

I'm not that well versed with LCD monitor technology. But some are getting very close to photograph quality. Would the 30fps still be a problem? Doesn't the monitor (or graphics card) have an algorythm to smooth movement, in which case the dropped frame from the pull-down wouldn't be an issue.

I'm dying to pick up the HD-10 and shoot as Paul says (ND filters, etc), albeit in black and white, only the inability to ever transfer to film is holding me back. Yeah, you could see it on DVD, but you couldn't submit it to Sundance, etc.

BTW, B&H has the HD10 but JVC doesn't pay to have it displayed. They do display the HD1, but it's broken (focus doesn't work). I suspect they've (JVC) let too much technology outta the bag at two small a price. Doesn't surprise me that the HDV format WON'T include 24p, or that the HD10-PAL doesn't include.... HD. Am i just too paranoid? Anyone think the next set of HD consumer cams will actually include 60p (which you COULD transfer to film) or will they stick to 30p?


Great forum, btw.

[Brian Mitchell Warshawsky]

Joseph,

Check out the following thread on this topic: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?threadid=14360

Your posting sounds like you are thinking the same way as me. Given the high quality of the original image, and the right conditions, I believe that a decent transfer for limited purposes is possible. I am also considering the JVC for a B&W feature, and have been studying this system for long enough to conclude the 30p may not be such an issue anymore.

According to a recent thread on WM9, many theaters and even Sundance are becoming WM9 compliant, and the quality is said to be very high.

Seriously review the following article: http://www.dv.com/features/features_item.jhtml;jsessionid=4HWMPIHN2XFOOQSNDBGCKHY?category=Archive&LookupId=/xml/feature/2003/johnson1103

Unless you are certain that you need a film transfer, there may be more options to show HD at Sundance than previously thought.

For my purposes, having a DVD with a black and white production that looks as if it were shot on super 16 with the ability to project a quality image digitally in WM9 format may be far more valuable than a low rez DV that could potentially be transferred to film at considerable expense.

Brian
JVC for a B&W effort.

[Brian Mitchell Warshawsky]

Josef,

Sorry about the misspelling.

Brian

[Josef Crow]

Brian

Thanks for the reply. Great to hear others have thought and are working toward the same solutions!

I'm looking at using a highend 22in lcd monitor (ibm t221) with matrox HR256 card and a fast dual xenon PC. The image quality of the T221 is great (9 million pixels) and might be overkill. , I'm trying to find out if the 30fps will still be a problem. I do know you can crystal sync the camera and monitor, and anyway, LCDs have less flicker anyway. But you might still drop a frame.

It's an expensive workflow, but as i need to get a new PC and monitor anyway (living in powerbook land at the moment, but thinking of converting to PC).

I'm going to check out Twixtor and possibly give them a call to see if they can help. Would you need to use After Effects to make the conversion possible?

For the moment, Sundance still requires 35mm, 16mm or HDcam. Don't think they'd accept 720p/30fps. Not that it's that important. Am looking at doing a short in B+W using the HD10u, and a full feature when a newer HD camera becomes available. I'm worried there WON'T be any inexpensive HD cameras running faster than 30p.

[Eric Bilodeau]

I also believe the 30p to 24p problem is overstated. We should see soon enough. One thing is sure, the transfer facilities seem to hate it. W might prove them wrong one of these days...