Shutter 30 or 60? at DVinfo.net

Alex Raskin · October 13th, 2003, 07:51 AM

Okay, here's a dilemma.

With shutter at 1/30, objects moving across the frame look smooth but blurry.

With 1/60, objects are almost always sharp, but there's a "ghost image" effect behind the moving object. (Psychological phenomenon, explained in Steve Mullen's Shooting Guide. Nothing to do with the camera. Have your hand 10" in front of your face, then oscillate it like metronome. You'll see the same ghosting trail thing.)

Of course, one will make arrangements for the specific camera moves while shooting, to avoid ghosting at 1/60, such as camera *tracking* the object that moves, etc.

ATTENTION people who actually shoot with HD1/HD10: what is your take on this? Do you have personal preferences? Why?

I personally prefer 1/60, but fast movements look real bad, and I have no chance to view the footage on theater-size screen (my guess is that ghosting will be unacceptable).

Ideas?

Alex Raskin · October 14th, 2003, 09:38 AM

Watched Law&Order Special Victims Unit series or SD TV yesterday, and noticed that "ghost trailing" was profound.

Yet this is deemed acceptable?

Anyone knows how Law&Order is shot - 35mm film or progressive video? If latter, what cams?

Heath McKnight · October 14th, 2003, 07:19 PM

I was using an XL-1s for the first time; wish I bought that! Anyway, I really paid attention to the shutter. I liked 1/30 but DUG the heck outta 1/60.

Since the f---in' "auto" controls always puts it back to 1/60, might as well stick with it.

I'm hearing JVC were taken aback by how WELL the HD10 is selling. Maybe they'll come out with a better version later, much like how the XL-1s became more manual control-friendly. And I also saw the Gain went down lower (-3) and as high as +30 (!); and the shutter now goes lower than 1/30 (1/5, I think=slow motion!).

Of course, for those of us with the crappy audio through the XLR adaptor and the not-so-manual controls will have to sit back and grin...and bear it...

Okay, rant over.

heath

Alex Raskin · October 14th, 2003, 07:50 PM

Heath, what was the *frame rate* you used on XL1? Does that camera shoot progressive?

I'm interested in opinions about using 1/30 vs. 1/60 shutter speeds with JVC HD cams, and these cams shoot HD exclusively in *30p*.

Anyone?

Steve Mullen · October 14th, 2003, 09:19 PM

Looking at stills, I prefer 1/60th because 1/30th is way too blurred.

But, Eric's technique of using ND filters forces 1/30th.

Looking at motion video, I can't see any difference.

So 1/30th verses 1/60th isn't a crucial choice. Other choices re more important.

October 13th, 2003, 07:51 AM	#1
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	Shutter 30 or 60? Okay, here's a dilemma. With shutter at 1/30, objects moving across the frame look smooth but blurry. With 1/60, objects are almost always sharp, but there's a "ghost image" effect behind the moving object. (Psychological phenomenon, explained in Steve Mullen's Shooting Guide. Nothing to do with the camera. Have your hand 10" in front of your face, then oscillate it like metronome. You'll see the same ghosting trail thing.) Of course, one will make arrangements for the specific camera moves while shooting, to avoid ghosting at 1/60, such as camera tracking the object that moves, etc. ATTENTION people who actually shoot with HD1/HD10: what is your take on this? Do you have personal preferences? Why? I personally prefer 1/60, but fast movements look real bad, and I have no chance to view the footage on theater-size screen (my guess is that ghosting will be unacceptable). Ideas?

October 14th, 2003, 07:19 PM	#3
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I was using an XL-1s for the first time; wish I bought that! Anyway, I really paid attention to the shutter. I liked 1/30 but DUG the heck outta 1/60. Since the f---in' "auto" controls always puts it back to 1/60, might as well stick with it. I'm hearing JVC were taken aback by how WELL the HD10 is selling. Maybe they'll come out with a better version later, much like how the XL-1s became more manual control-friendly. And I also saw the Gain went down lower (-3) and as high as +30 (!); and the shutter now goes lower than 1/30 (1/5, I think=slow motion!). Of course, for those of us with the crappy audio through the XLR adaptor and the not-so-manual controls will have to sit back and grin...and bear it... Okay, rant over. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

October 14th, 2003, 09:19 PM	#5
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	Looking at stills, I prefer 1/60th because 1/30th is way too blurred. But, Eric's technique of using ND filters forces 1/30th. Looking at motion video, I can't see any difference. So 1/30th verses 1/60th isn't a crucial choice. Other choices re more important. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

October 14th, 2003, 09:38 AM	#2
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	Watched Law&Order Special Victims Unit series or SD TV yesterday, and noticed that "ghost trailing" was profound. Yet this is deemed acceptable? Anyone knows how Law&Order is shot - 35mm film or progressive video? If latter, what cams?

October 14th, 2003, 07:50 PM	#4
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	Heath, what was the frame rate you used on XL1? Does that camera shoot progressive? I'm interested in opinions about using 1/30 vs. 1/60 shutter speeds with JVC HD cams, and these cams shoot HD exclusively in 30p. Anyone?