hd1 as general purpose consumer camcorder?

[Allyn Fratkin]

hi, i've been lurking here for awhile but i am just starting to post. i've been eyeing the jvc hd cameras since they were announced.

i hope you guys can help me out.

i am planning at least one "once in a lifetime" vacation soon and have a baby on the way next summer.

i want to buy a digital camcorder. this would be my first DV camera. i have no experience with digital editing or anything.

i have an hdtv (rca f38310) and i love the quality of high-definition tv. if i'm going to spend the money for a digital camcorder anyway, shouldn't i spend a little more and get one that looks toward the future rather than the past?

am i crazy to think i can use an hd1 (or hd10) to shoot handheld travel videos and handheld videos of a baby?

thanks.

allyn

[Barry Green]

Actually you sound like you fit the exact profile JVC had in mind for who would buy this camera. JVC targeted "wealthy, early adopters who had an HDTV at home and wanted their camcorder to take advantage of it" (paraphrased).

So, no, you're not crazy at all -- if what you want is HD, take a look at the camera, get a little hands-on time with it, and if you like it, go ahead!

[Steve Mullen]

I'd agree with Berry.

At B&H the HD1 is $2400 while the HD10 is $3000 -- if I remember right.

I'd go with the HD10 just for the much improved image quality.

And then use the regular handle and built in mic. Forget the XLR handle and buying another mic. The internal mic is surprisingly good!

And outdoors when you can't see the LCD well, the HD10 VF is much better.

You might want my Shooting Guide either before or after you buy.

"Don't Shoot Without it!"

[Raymond Krystof]

I also fully agree! This is indeed the market JVC is after. I am a consumer hobbyist using the HD10. Despite some of the negative critic you’ve probably been reading on this forum the HD10 and presumably the HD1 does pretty much as well as any other mainstream “point and shoot” camera used for consumer level video. I used mine on a vacation trip to Lake Powell in Utah a couple of weeks ago and I’d have to say the video I shoot looks fantastic on my HD projection TV. I’m referring to image quality here. The larger the screen size the more dramatic the difference between DV and HDV. With extra care and using some of the tips and advice posted on this forum the potential of the camera is even greater.

[Darren Kelly]

<<<-- Originally posted by Allyn Fratkin :
am i crazy to think i can use an hd1 (or hd10) to shoot handheld travel videos and handheld videos of a baby? -->>>


I think you would be very happy with the HD1 or HD10.

There is a slightly better image on the HD10 for professional use, but if I were you I'd look at the HD1. At $2400.00 it's a good bargain.

Good luck with the baby, and the trip of a lifetime.

Cheers


Darren Kelly
HDVTraining: The JumpStart Guide to the JVC HD Cameras - Coming SOON
http://www.hdvtraining.com

[Allyn Fratkin]

thanks for the responses, guys! good to know i'm not crazy. :-)

it seems like most of the people here are professionals with professional desires and expectations -- that's why i was starting to worry that this camera was maybe intended more for professionals and wouldn't work for what i wanted to do.

unless the price on the hd10 drops a lot over the next couple of months or the quality as shown on Darren's dvd is really quite a lot better, i'll probably just settle for the hd1. even the hd1 is more than i'd intended to spend.

thanks again.

allyn

[Lisa Lee]

Hmm...if you have no experience with digital anything and you want a camera for your baby shots and travel...I wouldn't recommend this camera. I just got it and its not an easy camera to shoot with. But it does look good when you set things up right. If you are a serious hobbyist, then I would highly recommend it. But if you say you have no experience with digital anything and have a baby on the way...I'd recommend the Canon Elura series. It fits in my purse and the second the baby does something fun I yank it out and shoot. You cannot do that with this camera. Honestly, if you want baby shots, you don't want something big and bulky you will never use. You want something that fits in the diaper bag and is highly portable for travel. Ditto for vacations. Sony makes some nice miniDV cams in the $2K range that can almost fit in your pocket. Thats where my money would go first. Then in a couple years when the HD cam market matures, get one for when your kid is walking around and doing fun stuff. just my 2 cents.

[Alex Raskin]

At expense of contradicting my own raving posts on JVC HD cams, I have to advise *against* using any of them for *home movies*.

Auto or not, they only work good under controlled cicrumstances that include careful lighting and camera movement.

Using them for home movies will result in sea sickness-inducing picture that has lots of chroma noise and much blown whites etc.

I totally ditto Lisa Lee on this.

Or, if you need a semi-pro, large camcorder, get Sony VX2000. It produces stunning picture even in full auto mode.

(My dream is that Sony will eventually come up with VX2000 as-is with all features, but in HD resolution. Maybe in 2005?)

Bottom line: JVC HD cams will give more headache than joy to the home user. (It actually gives royal pain to the pro's as well, but we simply know how to deal with that, and we throw big time/money at them AFTER the purchase.)

Plus, the whole editing/distribution thing is simply not ready yet as of now.

[Lisa Lee]

yeah, like umm $600 for premiere, $1200 for aspect, and add on the required filters, mic, etc... Its really more if you want to actually be able to edit with this camera. Whereas with the simple DV cam you can get a combo editing pack and DVD authoring for under a hundred these days.

And I assume you are going to at least attempt to edit with the camera.

[Troy Lamont]

Good day all,

I too have been a lurker for quite some time and finally decided to post for the first time.

Let me preface my statements with these facts; I do not own any of the JVC HD camcorders, I have not seen one of them in person so I have no practical experience, I will be purchasing one of these within the next month or so (probably the JY-HD10).

Now, what I'd suggest to Allyn is to view the clips that have been available online to make a preliminary assessment. If you have a decent PC monitor that does 1280 X 720 you can get a great idea of what this camcorder has to offer. I view mine at work on a 17" Compaq monitor running 1280 X 1024 resolution via a Dell PIII 1Ghz laptop. At home I view them on a 55" widescreen HDTV via a Dell P2.4 running a custom resolution. Not all of the clips offer the best this camcorder can do, but 90% of them do show excellent quality HD clips. Images that 'we' can definitely live with, without regard to any 'pro' aspects. Many of the clips are point and shoot and handheld as stated by the owners. If you're interested in receiving any, let me know (broadband required of course). I could also put them on one CD and send it to you via snail mail.

From there I'd suggest, if possible for you to try one out first hand if you can find a retailer close that carries one. Try it out first if you can to see if 'you' like it.

I find it rather perplexing to see some recommendations of $2500+ DV camcorders when the JVC can be had for about the same price. I have a Sony MiniDV camcorder (TRV20) and I like it for DV, but from what I've seen in the clips provided, it can't hold a candle to the JVCs regardless of what adjustments have to be made to get a 'pro' look from most of the footage. Regardless of pricing, options, CCDs or lenses, all DV camcorders can only resolve a 720 X 480 image. If I can do almost twice that, I'd opt for the resolution of the JVC even if it does have somewhat of a slight learning curve for image perfection. Out of the box quality is top notch from what I've seen and read. Almost all of the owners I've been in contact love their camcorder, minor flaws and all. The picture just blows you away.

If your interest is there, then I suggest you put your requirements into perspective and judge for yourself.

I truly respect the wealth of knowledge that's been presented on this forum, but I also understand that a lot of what's being shared is based on personal opinion and I take it as such.

Last point, it seems to me that a majority of the users and prospective users here are wanting to do editing right off the bat and are frustrated because the options are limited. I for one and possibly Allyn just want HD, I don't care about not being able to edit, it'll all come in time for my purposes anyway. That doesn't really retract from the camcorder itself and I for one wouldn't let that be a factor that hampers my decision to purchase (which it hasn't). My initial interest was HD at such a low price point and that's whats being offered, no frills. If this was made for early adopter 'typical' consumers, then count me in.

Troy

[Jose Cavazos]

Troy,
I own a TRV-11, which is essentially same video less still resolution than TRV-20, as well as a JY-HD10. My HDTV is a 65" Toshiba with 1080i and the downconverted (720p --> 1080i) looks phenomenal. Editing is an issue, but in the long run, it won't. You will need to upgrade your laptop and perhaps add RAM to your P2.4 to permit minimal editing by the JVC software. I expect that it will take until next late Spring, for similar models from other manufacturers and/or improved JVC models appear in the US market.

[Alex Raskin]

Allyn asked whether HD1/10 is good for first-time digital camera user wanting to make home movies.

My answer is no.

It's like taking driving lessons on manual-shift Lamborghini in NYC traffic - would you do that?

I owned both Hd1/10, and consumer/prosumer miniDV cams, and from experience, Lisa Lee's post makes most sense.

[Jose Cavazos]

The alternative view is that editing might occur in a year or two (or even later). Next summer, when I have the time, I will buy whatever suite that is available, but for the time, I want to keep the highest quality of video of my kids. I still have not edited the trip to Hawaii with my family from last year. I will do that this Christmas to show it to the rest of my family. Now, this is my home taping stuff. At work, I need the highest resolution possible for medical education and have ordered the 2K software.

[Eric Bilodeau]

It all depends on the eye of the beholder. This camera produces some type of images in full auto mode, equivalent of the entry level niniDVs in terms of exposure and artefacting. This is more than enough for the home video type, a lot of them won't even consider using any type of manual controls ever. I talked with one of these guys who bought the japanese model. This guy is in love with this camera and the images he sent me where (to me) unnacceptable in my context but he was like a baby with a toy, it was exceeding all his expectations and he was projecting them on his HDTV set with a sense of satisfaction. Lisa is right, a Hobbyist will find ways to make it better ad do most with it than a home videographer with "no hassle full auto" in mind but then again he will want to do more with it, the other will not mind or will learn has he goes. I think it is an excellent choice for anybody wanting HD for their home movies. In auto it still records images right? and they are more than enough for a lot of people.

[Mike Eby]

I bought the HD1 as my first DV camera. I thought it was time to retire the old Canon 8mm. I have a pretty decent home theater and all the DV footage I have seen pail in comparison to HD1. The camera is not perfect but with some very simple manual settings IMO the image is far better than any other DV camera on the market today. Yes the latitude of the camera is limited but watching your new baby grow up in HD will be something you will not be able to re-shoot at a later date. So I say if you can afford it, go for it.

IMO as and HD1 owner for your application the slightly improved PQ on the HD10 my not be worth the extra $400-$600 but that’s your call.

Mike