PAL version of the JY-HD10U? at DVinfo.net

John Eriksson · August 26th, 2003, 06:48 PM

Is there going to be any PAL version of JY-HD10U? With the DV mode and SD mode in PAL 720*576px? Have anyone heard something about this?

Glenn Gipson · August 26th, 2003, 10:27 PM

There will be a PAL version, but it will not be HD. It will be SD only.

Steve Mullen · August 27th, 2003, 07:01 AM

But it will offer 480p25!

Think film.

John Eriksson · August 27th, 2003, 08:05 AM

Do you mean a PAL version of the JY-HD10U will be released but with the HD mode at 1280*720 disabeld?? That is crap, the higher resolution is the best argument for this camera, who will want to buy it when the HD mode cannot be used?? Are you sure of this Glenn?

Penfold Plum · August 27th, 2003, 08:44 AM

Check it out on:

www.jvc.co.uk

It's called the GR-PD1.

I completely agree with your sentiments, what a load of crap.

Steve Mullen · August 27th, 2003, 11:30 AM

Remember there is no HD in Europe. So there can be no HD camcorder.

No HDTVs to watch it with.

Frankly, I can't figure out why if it runs at 720p30 it can't run at 720p25.

John Eriksson · August 27th, 2003, 12:22 PM

But that´s not why Iam going to buy it anyhow.. I don´t own a HD-telly. And the only reson that I am interested of this cam is to get the Hi-res moving images in the computer. This will allow more creative editing. I have done alot of movies on odinary DV and I have grown sick and tired with the low end (low-res) results. I think and hope that this camcorder could solve my problems. I just hope that I am going to be able to view my material on my tv in Sweden (PAL).

Ken Hodson · August 27th, 2003, 12:45 PM

Because 720 25p insn't HD or Pal standard. It would be a mutant setting.
I am still anxious to see how this camera pans out as its 625p modes in 25 and 50 fps might make it the tool for film transfer. 625p in 16x9 resolution is quite high. Considering that as we know the 720p mode does not use its full resolution, they may actually be very close in pixel count.
25p for its ability for easy transfer to 24fps film is not that important to me as I think tranfer to film is a dying option. Digital projector, DVD, or web distribution is where the future is at. I hope that once all major theaters change to digital projection that 24fps quickly dies.

John Eriksson · August 27th, 2003, 01:12 PM

It´s just a shame that I can´t use the DV and SD mode on the JY-HD10U cam here..

Patrick Bower · August 27th, 2003, 03:22 PM

Presumably this means that my PAL DVX100, with a 25p DV image of 720x576 pixels is going to be virtually as high resolution as the JVC, on a PAL TV.
Patrick

Penfold Plum · August 27th, 2003, 05:05 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Patrick Bower : Presumably this means that my PAL DVX100, with a 25p DV image of 720x576 pixels is going to be virtually as high resolution as the JVC, on a PAL TV.
Patrick -->>>

:)

Ken, there is still a huge difference between HD and SD PAL. SD is 720x576 whereas HD is 1280x720 (HD has a huge increase in both horizontal and vertical resolution over NTSC, whereas SD PAL just has a 20% increase in vertical resolution). And yes there is a HD PAL specification. Not only that Sony, JVC, Panasonic and Canon just agreed on a spec for HDV:

From camcorderinfo.com

"The companies have listed four key components of the new HDV standard. First, it will have the ability to record and playback a signal on internationally accepted cassette tapes.The second component is that the format will be able to record in 720 line resolution 60 frames progressive, 720 lines resolution 30 frames progressive, 720 line resolution 50 frames progressive, 720 lines resolution 25 frames progressive, 1080 lines resolution 60 frames interlaced and 1080 line resolution 50 frames interlaced. The third component is that it will have improved error correction and lastly, the fourth objective is to improve on the MPEG format by enabling previewing of video when fast forwarding and running the video in slow motion.

The agreement upon a standard for recording HD video is a huge development. Compatibility among different devices for any video standard is a must for it to be adopted widely by the public. Now that the manufacturers have a standard in development, more HD camcorders will likely be coming soon."

Barry Green · August 27th, 2003, 05:06 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Ken Hodson : I am still anxious to see how this camera pans out as its 625p modes in 25 and 50 fps might make it the tool for film transfer. 625p in 16x9 resolution is quite high. Considering that as we know the 720p mode does not use its full resolution, they may actually be very close in pixel count. -->>>

It's PAL standard resolution, so the so-called 625p mode will be 720 x 576. Nowhere near what the NTSC version delivers.

But, it still may be interesting, because it claims it shoots native 16:9 at 720 x 576 at 50p. You may be able to use that as a bit of a mini-VariCam post-processing solution to get multiple frame rates and smooth slow motion. But it remains to be seen if the camera suffers from the same extreme latitude limitations as the NTSC version.

Ken Hodson · August 28th, 2003, 10:03 PM

OK, I guess I was a little mislead. The following quote is from the DOC that came with my MainConcept DV codec. As you can see it list PAL 16:9 as a very high resolution. If this is wrong why are they listing it as such?

"FrameSizes in Pixel (for 1.25 and 16:9)
PAL 720x576, 25 Fps
NTSC 720x480, 30/29.97 Fps

PAL VideoSize(square pixels): 1.25 (720x576) & 16:9 (1280x576)
NTSC VideoSize(square pixels): 1.25 (600x480) & 16:9 (1013x480)

Patrick Bower · August 29th, 2003, 02:34 AM

The Main concept figures are for DV. Is this going to apply to the JVC MPEG output?
If it is, then the horizontal resolution is better than any affordable DV progressive scan camera, simply because there aren't any prosumer, progressive scan, DV cameras that shoot native 16x9.
The actual increase in horizontal resolution is not that much. 720 horizontal pixels in a 4x3 screen is equivalent to 960 in 16x9, compared to 1280 in the PAL widescreen standard. The vertical resolution, 576 pixels, is the same.
Presumably the Sony PDX10 will shoot 16x9 in 1280x576 resolution, but only interlaced. The DVX100 would, in progressive, with an anamorphic adapter.
Patrick

Ken Hodson · August 29th, 2003, 07:18 AM

An anamorphic adapter does not change your resolution. When you select 16:9 in post it just changes the pixel aspect ratio to extra wide pixels.

August 26th, 2003, 06:48 PM	#1
John Eriksson Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 57	PAL version of the JY-HD10U? Is there going to be any PAL version of JY-HD10U? With the DV mode and SD mode in PAL 720*576px? Have anyone heard something about this?

August 27th, 2003, 07:01 AM	#3
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	But it will offer 480p25! Think film. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

August 27th, 2003, 08:05 AM	#4
John Eriksson Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 57	------------------------------ Do you mean a PAL version of the JY-HD10U will be released but with the HD mode at 1280*720 disabeld?? That is crap, the higher resolution is the best argument for this camera, who will want to buy it when the HD mode cannot be used?? Are you sure of this Glenn?

August 27th, 2003, 11:30 AM	#6
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	Remember there is no HD in Europe. So there can be no HD camcorder. No HDTVs to watch it with. Frankly, I can't figure out why if it runs at 720p30 it can't run at 720p25. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

August 27th, 2003, 12:22 PM	#7
John Eriksson Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 57	------------------------------------ But that´s not why Iam going to buy it anyhow.. I don´t own a HD-telly. And the only reson that I am interested of this cam is to get the Hi-res moving images in the computer. This will allow more creative editing. I have done alot of movies on odinary DV and I have grown sick and tired with the low end (low-res) results. I think and hope that this camcorder could solve my problems. I just hope that I am going to be able to view my material on my tv in Sweden (PAL).

August 26th, 2003, 10:27 PM	#2
Glenn Gipson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Plainfield, New Jersey Posts: 927	There will be a PAL version, but it will not be HD. It will be SD only.

August 27th, 2003, 08:44 AM	#5
Penfold Plum New Boot Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: London England Posts: 15	Check it out on: www.jvc.co.uk It's called the GR-PD1. I completely agree with your sentiments, what a load of crap.

August 27th, 2003, 12:45 PM	#8
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	Because 720 25p insn't HD or Pal standard. It would be a mutant setting. I am still anxious to see how this camera pans out as its 625p modes in 25 and 50 fps might make it the tool for film transfer. 625p in 16x9 resolution is quite high. Considering that as we know the 720p mode does not use its full resolution, they may actually be very close in pixel count. 25p for its ability for easy transfer to 24fps film is not that important to me as I think tranfer to film is a dying option. Digital projector, DVD, or web distribution is where the future is at. I hope that once all major theaters change to digital projection that 24fps quickly dies. __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

August 27th, 2003, 01:12 PM	#9
John Eriksson Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 57	------------------------------------ It´s just a shame that I can´t use the DV and SD mode on the JY-HD10U cam here..

August 27th, 2003, 03:22 PM	#10
Patrick Bower Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: London, England Posts: 126	Presumably this means that my PAL DVX100, with a 25p DV image of 720x576 pixels is going to be virtually as high resolution as the JVC, on a PAL TV. Patrick

August 27th, 2003, 05:05 PM	#11
Penfold Plum New Boot Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: London England Posts: 15	<<<-- Originally posted by Patrick Bower : Presumably this means that my PAL DVX100, with a 25p DV image of 720x576 pixels is going to be virtually as high resolution as the JVC, on a PAL TV. Patrick -->>> :) Ken, there is still a huge difference between HD and SD PAL. SD is 720x576 whereas HD is 1280x720 (HD has a huge increase in both horizontal and vertical resolution over NTSC, whereas SD PAL just has a 20% increase in vertical resolution). And yes there is a HD PAL specification. Not only that Sony, JVC, Panasonic and Canon just agreed on a spec for HDV: From camcorderinfo.com "The companies have listed four key components of the new HDV standard. First, it will have the ability to record and playback a signal on internationally accepted cassette tapes.The second component is that the format will be able to record in 720 line resolution 60 frames progressive, 720 lines resolution 30 frames progressive, 720 line resolution 50 frames progressive, 720 lines resolution 25 frames progressive, 1080 lines resolution 60 frames interlaced and 1080 line resolution 50 frames interlaced. The third component is that it will have improved error correction and lastly, the fourth objective is to improve on the MPEG format by enabling previewing of video when fast forwarding and running the video in slow motion. The agreement upon a standard for recording HD video is a huge development. Compatibility among different devices for any video standard is a must for it to be adopted widely by the public. Now that the manufacturers have a standard in development, more HD camcorders will likely be coming soon."

August 27th, 2003, 05:06 PM	#12
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	<<<-- Originally posted by Ken Hodson : I am still anxious to see how this camera pans out as its 625p modes in 25 and 50 fps might make it the tool for film transfer. 625p in 16x9 resolution is quite high. Considering that as we know the 720p mode does not use its full resolution, they may actually be very close in pixel count. -->>> It's PAL standard resolution, so the so-called 625p mode will be 720 x 576. Nowhere near what the NTSC version delivers. But, it still may be interesting, because it claims it shoots native 16:9 at 720 x 576 at 50p. You may be able to use that as a bit of a mini-VariCam post-processing solution to get multiple frame rates and smooth slow motion. But it remains to be seen if the camera suffers from the same extreme latitude limitations as the NTSC version.

August 28th, 2003, 10:03 PM	#13
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	OK, I guess I was a little mislead. The following quote is from the DOC that came with my MainConcept DV codec. As you can see it list PAL 16:9 as a very high resolution. If this is wrong why are they listing it as such? "FrameSizes in Pixel (for 1.25 and 16:9) PAL 720x576, 25 Fps NTSC 720x480, 30/29.97 Fps PAL VideoSize(square pixels): 1.25 (720x576) & 16:9 (1280x576) NTSC VideoSize(square pixels): 1.25 (600x480) & 16:9 (1013x480) __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

August 29th, 2003, 02:34 AM	#14
Patrick Bower Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: London, England Posts: 126	The Main concept figures are for DV. Is this going to apply to the JVC MPEG output? If it is, then the horizontal resolution is better than any affordable DV progressive scan camera, simply because there aren't any prosumer, progressive scan, DV cameras that shoot native 16x9. The actual increase in horizontal resolution is not that much. 720 horizontal pixels in a 4x3 screen is equivalent to 960 in 16x9, compared to 1280 in the PAL widescreen standard. The vertical resolution, 576 pixels, is the same. Presumably the Sony PDX10 will shoot 16x9 in 1280x576 resolution, but only interlaced. The DVX100 would, in progressive, with an anamorphic adapter. Patrick

August 29th, 2003, 07:18 AM	#15
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	An anamorphic adapter does not change your resolution. When you select 16:9 in post it just changes the pixel aspect ratio to extra wide pixels. __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.