Newbie Needs Tutor

Sasha Froyland · July 24th, 2003, 07:46 AM

Hello,

Please excuse the armature type questions, but I’m in a hurry and I have only 5 more days to determine if this camera is right for me. Your help would be appreciated. Excellent posts throughout this forum.

My last video camera was an XL1 and I really liked it – the video quality and quick focusing – but the bulk of the XL1 wasn’t conducive to taking the camera with me on long backpacking trips. So here I am 3 years later, and I’m trying out the JVC hd10u.

Got the camera from B&H and avoided the scams on EBay.

Yesterday I shot my first footage – a quick test to see if the camera and my Mitsubishi HD Ready TV would play nice. They did. And some of the shots were just fantastic! I love the clear glossy full resolution picture (like a 35mm still shot) that the HD setting produced. (Note: Had to adjust the hd10u to output 1080 as the TV couldn’t handle 720)
BUT, and here is where the ‘novice’ part shows, when I performed a slow pan outside under bright sunlight and standing in a field of tall grass, the colors played back just great (bit surprising) but the focus seemed to not hook on to the separate blades of wheat/grass and it produced a funky (pro add technical term here) affect. Of course the camera was set on Auto and HD, so I’m guessing that I need to go to Manual and (….?).

I have read many posts which have eluded to that the hd10u isn’t for everyone and a VERY steady hand and/or a good tripod is a must. I’ll be grabbing my tripods out of storage later today and will do some more shooting this afternoon.

One of my up and coming projects is going to be shooting some footage at a local SCCA race track, so today I’m going to shoot some cars passing by. Suggestions for camera settings?

My guess is that for a fast pan on a moving object (car) I may need to go off auto to manual and maybe turn the resolution down from HD to SD…and (don’t know which aperture and frame rate changes would be appropriate).

The majority of footage I’m looking at shooting is nature settings, so slow pans and stills are easy probably can be performed on Auto. But, I also like to shoot events – an up and coming fishing trip to Alaska for instance. Can the hd10u be configured to perform better then the Auto setting for a shot say from standing on a boat the shooting a person reeling in a big fish – lots of quick movements in bright light?

I’m anxious to learn the different techniques of how to accurately change the camera’s settings to fit different shots, but wanted someone with some experience on this camera (not a sales person) to say that all of the above kinds of shots are possible when the operator knows how to adjust the camera appropriately. Or, should I find a different (more consumer) oriented camera. Note: I cannot afford more then one camcorder.

Any advise would be appreciated.

Sasha

Steve Mullen · July 25th, 2003, 03:17 AM

Some simple rules for the race:

Use an 8X ND filter.

Set to MANUAL.

Lock shutter speed to 1/60th S.

Use manual focus.

Pan WITH the car(s).

Be sure to buy my HD10 Guide and Software when it ships in August. See my site.

Good luck!

Sasha Froyland · July 25th, 2003, 07:19 AM

Hello Steve,

Thanks for the advise.
I punched in '8x ND filter' into B&H and got a list of 16 different items to chose from. Any chance you could recommend one?

Ya, I checked your site the other day for a guide on the HD10. When it comes out, consider one copy sold here. In fact, I would be interested in the rough draft and an upgrade later on if you think what you got currently would help. Hoping to take the camera to Alaska next Tuesday but still have a lot to learn.

Found a section of the manual (p44-52) that talks about how to alter the camera’s manual settings. I'll shoot some more today and try some these manual adjustments. One serius complaint is the awkwardness of the location/design of the Power Switch. Any chance someone will manufacture a replacement?

I thought I read that Adobe Premiere 6.5 can be used to edit the JVC hd10. Is this true? Do you recommend?

Thanks for all your hell.

Sasha

Steve Mullen · July 25th, 2003, 11:11 AM

I used a Sony 52mm I bought years ago in Tokyo. Buy neither the cheapest nor the most expensive. :)

You only need one manual setting in HD for your race. Press SA once, then dial in the Shutter-speed to 1/60th. Once set, do NOT press the SA button again!

Use either Fine or Cloudy for WB.

Turn-off AF.

The Power button seems stiff at first, but eventually I had no problems with it.

Just remember -- go with the flow.

And don't pan or zoom. Compose each shot like you would for a 35mm slide!

And, yes P 6.5/Pro can be used with CineForm.

Heath McKnight · July 25th, 2003, 07:05 PM

I know how to lock the exposure, what about the shutter--how do you lock the shutter?

heath

Michael Hyun · July 25th, 2003, 07:25 PM

Quick terminology clarification:

IRIS: hole the light comes through (aperature),
-if small- large depth of field,
-if large- shallow depth of field
SHUTTER SPEED: length of time light is allowed through

EXPOSURE= IRIS plus SHUTTER SPEED ==> total light

Aperature priority AE: Set Iris (it's locked if u don't leave S/A), shutter speed auto compensates

Shutter priority AE: Set Shutter speed (it's locked if u don't leave S/A), iris auto compensates

EXPOSURE LOCK: The instruction manual indicates Iris lock (not shutter speed), but after it's locked, no exposure changes are detectable regardless of lighting changes. Thus, I think you can safely assume that it locks BOTH the IRIS and the SHUTTER.

To sasha-
Gotta emphasize that the singlemost important thing you should use is a tripod; the appropriate use of it will make the largest difference by far.

Michael Hyun · July 25th, 2003, 07:46 PM

Sasha,

one more thing. The simplest thing that anybody can do to improve the quality of their home/vacation videos, is to practice "in camera editing". While professionals may spend hours in post rummaging through tons of footage, a home enthusiast probably does not have the patience or time for this.

Try to limit individual shots to under 10 seconds. This simple basic rule will often drasticly improve the watchability of amateur videos. There is an auto 5sec mode on the JVC for people who don't have the discipline for this. Videos will move forward, rather than stagnate.

Use a tripod and stick to the above rule, and your friends and family will be amazed at the quality of your home movies.

Sasha Froyland · July 25th, 2003, 08:55 PM

DAY 4:
Hello Michael,

Thanks for taking the time to write. I'm fairly well practiced with the 'in camera editing' but you are exactly correct. One can make huge gains by just shooting short takes, using a tripod, and avoiding pans and zooms. My biggest concern is feeling like this camera is going to prove to be worth the money.
I have been practicing a great deal trying to get a feeling for comfort with this camera. I'm almost there.

Short takes - I have been having some difficulty judging when the camera is actually recording and when it stops. It get a better feel for this I turned on the Time Coding so I can see exactly when the tape starts to move. I'm a big fan of 3 second max shoots/clips. Been tricky recording exactly what I think I shot as there is a bit of delay - something I can live with but need to get use to.

I'm working my way through the manual and am on page 52. I've practiced most of the manual settings and will review the tape tonight.

Have you used the editing package that comes with the camera? How the editor works will not make or break my final decision to buy as I'm sure there are or will be many other products, but I am hoping that the editing package is okay and stable. Years ago I use to use a product from in-sync called SpeedRazor. I really liked the product and features, but had a lot of technical problems which lead to be ditching it, the XL1 and the PC hardware. Hopefully things have improved.

Sasha

Steve Mullen · July 25th, 2003, 10:41 PM

Lock-shutter: press SA once, dial to 1/30 or 1/60. Don't touch SA again!

Normally I let the camera run because tape is cheap and it mostly gets discarded when I log prior to NLE capture.

Now that DV Scene Capture has arrived, I PAUSE shortly after a shot, but may start slightly early.

But because you'll need to demux the file your capture and that takes time -- it's best to limit each shot.

Heath McKnight · July 26th, 2003, 10:14 AM

Whoops, I was hitting S/A again...

heath

Sasha Froyland · July 27th, 2003, 10:28 AM

Day 5:
Took the hd10 out to the nearby highway, and threw it onto the road in front of on coming traffic. (just kidding)
Practiced shooting passing cars and got a lot of good practice for the types of shots I’ll be doing. Tried many different shots both on Manual and on Automatic. Manual won by a landslide. Settings included Sport mode with Clouds and manual focus. Worked like a charm. However, I did find it a bit ackward using the manual zoom out, but that would probably change after I upgrade the tripod.

In summary, I’m sold. Watched the highway footage on a HD TV and was very impressed. This camcorder will do fine.

Day 6: Editing. Learned the the i.Link cable is not included. Lamn! So do have to mail order the exact chord specified in the Owners Manual – VC-VDV206U or VC-VD204U? It appears that a generic chord from the local super store (BestBuy, Circuit City, CompUSA) will work but yet to be seen. Also will need to get a carrying case – as my trip to Alaska departs soon. Seen a few good bags on EBay, but I’m sick of the EBay fraud scare. Seems like everyday someone is posting either a hd10 or the consumer model, only for EBay security to remove their posting 4 hours later. Lamn. Get a fuc_ing job you EBay scam bags!

Thanks to everyone of your feedback. You have made learning the manual controls easier and make sense.

Thanks,

Sasha

Steve Mullen · July 28th, 2003, 12:21 AM

<<<-- Settings included Sport mode with Clouds and manual focus.

Avoid sports -- the shutter-speed goes way too high!

"Learned the the i.Link cable is not included."

Look again, I'm sure its in the pack. And ANY 4-pin FiireWire cable will work!

Good luck!

Sasha Froyland · July 28th, 2003, 08:41 AM

Thanks Steve. Will recheck the box the camera came in but already bought one. HD Capture worked well to downloaded the shots to the PC. Edited the clips in MPEG Edit Studio. Kind of a lamn program. Last editing program I used a few years ago was SpeedRazer by in-sync. Do you recommend a particular editor?

Anyways, put a set of shots/clips together and some simple transitions. Outputted or Exported the cuts. Then opened ImageMixer DVD to burn the DVD but the 'DVD' button was grayed out. Only 'DVD Video' was enabled. Do you know why?

Okay, clicked on 'DVD Video', added the file made from the above and burned a DVD. Great. Plays on the Computer perfectly. Put the DVD into my new JVC DVD Player and it couldn't read it. I think the problem is that I burned the DVD onto a DVD +RW - as I didn't have any plan old DVD blanks - just the ReWritable ones. Do you think this is the problem with why the JVC DVD Player cannot play the DVD?

Is there a better DVD burning software that you recommend? I have a licensed cope of DIVit! SE, but I cannot get it to support 16:9 sized clips.

Thanks again for your help,

Sasha

July 24th, 2003, 07:46 AM	#1
Sasha Froyland Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 67	Newbie Needs Tutor – 7 Day Trial Running Out! Hello, Please excuse the armature type questions, but I’m in a hurry and I have only 5 more days to determine if this camera is right for me. Your help would be appreciated. Excellent posts throughout this forum. My last video camera was an XL1 and I really liked it – the video quality and quick focusing – but the bulk of the XL1 wasn’t conducive to taking the camera with me on long backpacking trips. So here I am 3 years later, and I’m trying out the JVC hd10u. Got the camera from B&H and avoided the scams on EBay. Yesterday I shot my first footage – a quick test to see if the camera and my Mitsubishi HD Ready TV would play nice. They did. And some of the shots were just fantastic! I love the clear glossy full resolution picture (like a 35mm still shot) that the HD setting produced. (Note: Had to adjust the hd10u to output 1080 as the TV couldn’t handle 720) BUT, and here is where the ‘novice’ part shows, when I performed a slow pan outside under bright sunlight and standing in a field of tall grass, the colors played back just great (bit surprising) but the focus seemed to not hook on to the separate blades of wheat/grass and it produced a funky (pro add technical term here) affect. Of course the camera was set on Auto and HD, so I’m guessing that I need to go to Manual and (….?). I have read many posts which have eluded to that the hd10u isn’t for everyone and a VERY steady hand and/or a good tripod is a must. I’ll be grabbing my tripods out of storage later today and will do some more shooting this afternoon. One of my up and coming projects is going to be shooting some footage at a local SCCA race track, so today I’m going to shoot some cars passing by. Suggestions for camera settings? My guess is that for a fast pan on a moving object (car) I may need to go off auto to manual and maybe turn the resolution down from HD to SD…and (don’t know which aperture and frame rate changes would be appropriate). The majority of footage I’m looking at shooting is nature settings, so slow pans and stills are easy probably can be performed on Auto. But, I also like to shoot events – an up and coming fishing trip to Alaska for instance. Can the hd10u be configured to perform better then the Auto setting for a shot say from standing on a boat the shooting a person reeling in a big fish – lots of quick movements in bright light? I’m anxious to learn the different techniques of how to accurately change the camera’s settings to fit different shots, but wanted someone with some experience on this camera (not a sales person) to say that all of the above kinds of shots are possible when the operator knows how to adjust the camera appropriately. Or, should I find a different (more consumer) oriented camera. Note: I cannot afford more then one camcorder. Any advise would be appreciated. Sasha

July 25th, 2003, 03:17 AM	#2
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	Some simple rules for the race: Use an 8X ND filter. Set to MANUAL. Lock shutter speed to 1/60th S. Use manual focus. Pan WITH the car(s). Be sure to buy my HD10 Guide and Software when it ships in August. See my site. Good luck! __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

July 25th, 2003, 11:11 AM	#4
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	I used a Sony 52mm I bought years ago in Tokyo. Buy neither the cheapest nor the most expensive. :) You only need one manual setting in HD for your race. Press SA once, then dial in the Shutter-speed to 1/60th. Once set, do NOT press the SA button again! Use either Fine or Cloudy for WB. Turn-off AF. The Power button seems stiff at first, but eventually I had no problems with it. Just remember -- go with the flow. And don't pan or zoom. Compose each shot like you would for a 35mm slide! And, yes P 6.5/Pro can be used with CineForm. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

July 25th, 2003, 07:05 PM	#5
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I know how to lock the exposure, what about the shutter--how do you lock the shutter? heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

July 25th, 2003, 10:41 PM	#9
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	Lock-shutter: press SA once, dial to 1/30 or 1/60. Don't touch SA again! Normally I let the camera run because tape is cheap and it mostly gets discarded when I log prior to NLE capture. Now that DV Scene Capture has arrived, I PAUSE shortly after a shot, but may start slightly early. But because you'll need to demux the file your capture and that takes time -- it's best to limit each shot. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

July 25th, 2003, 07:19 AM	#3
Sasha Froyland Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 67	Hello Steve, Thanks for the advise. I punched in '8x ND filter' into B&H and got a list of 16 different items to chose from. Any chance you could recommend one? Ya, I checked your site the other day for a guide on the HD10. When it comes out, consider one copy sold here. In fact, I would be interested in the rough draft and an upgrade later on if you think what you got currently would help. Hoping to take the camera to Alaska next Tuesday but still have a lot to learn. Found a section of the manual (p44-52) that talks about how to alter the camera’s manual settings. I'll shoot some more today and try some these manual adjustments. One serius complaint is the awkwardness of the location/design of the Power Switch. Any chance someone will manufacture a replacement? I thought I read that Adobe Premiere 6.5 can be used to edit the JVC hd10. Is this true? Do you recommend? Thanks for all your hell. Sasha

July 25th, 2003, 07:25 PM	#6
Michael Hyun Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 46	Quick terminology clarification: IRIS: hole the light comes through (aperature), -if small- large depth of field, -if large- shallow depth of field SHUTTER SPEED: length of time light is allowed through EXPOSURE= IRIS plus SHUTTER SPEED ==> total light Aperature priority AE: Set Iris (it's locked if u don't leave S/A), shutter speed auto compensates Shutter priority AE: Set Shutter speed (it's locked if u don't leave S/A), iris auto compensates EXPOSURE LOCK: The instruction manual indicates Iris lock (not shutter speed), but after it's locked, no exposure changes are detectable regardless of lighting changes. Thus, I think you can safely assume that it locks BOTH the IRIS and the SHUTTER. To sasha- Gotta emphasize that the singlemost important thing you should use is a tripod; the appropriate use of it will make the largest difference by far.

July 25th, 2003, 07:46 PM	#7
Michael Hyun Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 46	Sasha, one more thing. The simplest thing that anybody can do to improve the quality of their home/vacation videos, is to practice "in camera editing". While professionals may spend hours in post rummaging through tons of footage, a home enthusiast probably does not have the patience or time for this. Try to limit individual shots to under 10 seconds. This simple basic rule will often drasticly improve the watchability of amateur videos. There is an auto 5sec mode on the JVC for people who don't have the discipline for this. Videos will move forward, rather than stagnate. Use a tripod and stick to the above rule, and your friends and family will be amazed at the quality of your home movies.

July 25th, 2003, 08:55 PM	#8
Sasha Froyland Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 67	DAY 4: Hello Michael, Thanks for taking the time to write. I'm fairly well practiced with the 'in camera editing' but you are exactly correct. One can make huge gains by just shooting short takes, using a tripod, and avoiding pans and zooms. My biggest concern is feeling like this camera is going to prove to be worth the money. I have been practicing a great deal trying to get a feeling for comfort with this camera. I'm almost there. Short takes - I have been having some difficulty judging when the camera is actually recording and when it stops. It get a better feel for this I turned on the Time Coding so I can see exactly when the tape starts to move. I'm a big fan of 3 second max shoots/clips. Been tricky recording exactly what I think I shot as there is a bit of delay - something I can live with but need to get use to. I'm working my way through the manual and am on page 52. I've practiced most of the manual settings and will review the tape tonight. Have you used the editing package that comes with the camera? How the editor works will not make or break my final decision to buy as I'm sure there are or will be many other products, but I am hoping that the editing package is okay and stable. Years ago I use to use a product from in-sync called SpeedRazor. I really liked the product and features, but had a lot of technical problems which lead to be ditching it, the XL1 and the PC hardware. Hopefully things have improved. Sasha

July 26th, 2003, 10:14 AM	#10
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Whoops, I was hitting S/A again... heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

July 27th, 2003, 10:28 AM	#11
Sasha Froyland Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 67	Day 5: Took the hd10 out to the nearby highway, and threw it onto the road in front of on coming traffic. (just kidding) Practiced shooting passing cars and got a lot of good practice for the types of shots I’ll be doing. Tried many different shots both on Manual and on Automatic. Manual won by a landslide. Settings included Sport mode with Clouds and manual focus. Worked like a charm. However, I did find it a bit ackward using the manual zoom out, but that would probably change after I upgrade the tripod. In summary, I’m sold. Watched the highway footage on a HD TV and was very impressed. This camcorder will do fine. Day 6: Editing. Learned the the i.Link cable is not included. Lamn! So do have to mail order the exact chord specified in the Owners Manual – VC-VDV206U or VC-VD204U? It appears that a generic chord from the local super store (BestBuy, Circuit City, CompUSA) will work but yet to be seen. Also will need to get a carrying case – as my trip to Alaska departs soon. Seen a few good bags on EBay, but I’m sick of the EBay fraud scare. Seems like everyday someone is posting either a hd10 or the consumer model, only for EBay security to remove their posting 4 hours later. Lamn. Get a fuc_ing job you EBay scam bags! Thanks to everyone of your feedback. You have made learning the manual controls easier and make sense. Thanks, Sasha

July 28th, 2003, 12:21 AM	#12
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	<<<-- Settings included Sport mode with Clouds and manual focus. Avoid sports -- the shutter-speed goes way too high! "Learned the the i.Link cable is not included." Look again, I'm sure its in the pack. And ANY 4-pin FiireWire cable will work! Good luck! __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

July 28th, 2003, 08:41 AM	#13
Sasha Froyland Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 67	Thanks Steve. Will recheck the box the camera came in but already bought one. HD Capture worked well to downloaded the shots to the PC. Edited the clips in MPEG Edit Studio. Kind of a lamn program. Last editing program I used a few years ago was SpeedRazer by in-sync. Do you recommend a particular editor? Anyways, put a set of shots/clips together and some simple transitions. Outputted or Exported the cuts. Then opened ImageMixer DVD to burn the DVD but the 'DVD' button was grayed out. Only 'DVD Video' was enabled. Do you know why? Okay, clicked on 'DVD Video', added the file made from the above and burned a DVD. Great. Plays on the Computer perfectly. Put the DVD into my new JVC DVD Player and it couldn't read it. I think the problem is that I burned the DVD onto a DVD +RW - as I didn't have any plan old DVD blanks - just the ReWritable ones. Do you think this is the problem with why the JVC DVD Player cannot play the DVD? Is there a better DVD burning software that you recommend? I have a licensed cope of DIVit! SE, but I cannot get it to support 16:9 sized clips. Thanks again for your help, Sasha