HD... so what? at DVinfo.net

Kris Zimbelman · July 19th, 2003, 03:38 PM

I was at ultimate electronics the other day examining the new JVC high-definition camcorder. They had it hooked up to high-definition monitor and it delivered a truly remarkable picture. I then asked the salesman "what can I do with this content?" He just smiled and started talking about the new blue Ray DVD players coming out in January of 2004. I asked him if they would be very expensive. He remarked they would be, at first.

My point is this; it will probably be at least two years before you even have 30% market penetration of some type of player that will be able to take advantage of high-definition content. I don't know what the statistics are but I don't think that DVD players are in more than 60% of all households right now. And it may be difficult to sway these people into purchasing a new DVD player, especially considering there may be some format wars going on.

The bottom line is, while the new high-definition camcorder's are certainly an exciting development, they have little practical use in the immediate future.

Ken Tanaka · July 20th, 2003, 11:52 AM

Kris,
Actually, we've has some lengthy (and, at times, heated) discussions on this topic. Your position is, to some degree, similar to mine.

I was, however, reminded that there are many professional and wannabe-professionals who are shooting material for private corporate and promotional venues (i.e. trade show eye candy) who could make good use of a low-cost HD camera today.

Indeed, however, it will be a few years before new daddy's are grabbing HD cameras at Best Buy in significant numbers.

Glenn Gipson · July 21st, 2003, 04:50 AM

Don't forget that HDV not only transfers to 35mm better, but it also extends the life of your programming into the near future, when HDTV sets become more wide spread.

Peter Moore · July 21st, 2003, 11:42 AM

You also have Windows Media Player 9 HD support, so you could fit at least an hour of footage on a DVD-R for viewing on a computer. Combine that with a Home Theater PC card and you could be watching your footage on an HDTV that way.

I hope future HD DVD players also support DVD-R and WMP9 so that us lowly prosumers can still make HD content playable in home players.

Marla Mathias · July 21st, 2003, 03:30 PM

Well, the new HD10 arrived Friday afternoon. (Thank you all for your help and advice!) I decided to give it as a birthday present to the husband after all instead of the tube socks. He loves it - now he's after me to buy the extended battery and a carrying case (is there a place to get a carrying case?)

For me, what makes having this camera worthwhile, is first and foremost that there are things I want to record in HD now. My black lab is getting up there in years, and seeing her on the (relatively) big screen in HD glory is fantastic. Usually cameras make her black eyes disappear in her black hair. With the HD, her eyes are almost more glistening and distinct than in real life. And even if I didn't have an HD projector now, I'd want to have these tapes for the future when HD was more available. She (and who knows what else) may well not be around to tape by the time the next generation of HD appears.

But the other thing - HD **IS** available now, and we're enjoying it now. Just because my next door neighbor doesn't have it yet, just because there are no compatible DVD systems yet, so what? We're having a great time.

Kris Zimbelman · July 21st, 2003, 05:57 PM

With the setup you describe using Windows media nine, would you output from your computer via FireWire to the TV? And what would the quality be, 480 P, 720p, times 480 or 1080?

Michael Hyun · July 21st, 2003, 09:29 PM

If your HDTV has a DVI input, and your graphics card has a DVI out, that's pretty much all you need (there are 2 kinds of DVI cables so make sure they are the same type). As for the resolution, that's between your HDTV and your graphics card (most likely 1080i). Do a web search. There is a ton of info out there on this subject.

Peter Moore · July 21st, 2003, 10:28 PM

Also I'm pretty sure there are HTPC cards that have component outputs. At least there ought to be!

But yeah DVI would be the easiest. You'd also need to make sure the resolution of your graphics card was set to 1280 x 720 (most DVI graphics cards support this). Some probably support 1920 x 1080 too.

Then just open up Media Player 9, select full screen mode, and voila.

To answer the question though, no, firewire would not work, unless you encoded your media to MPEG-2 and had software that could output the type of data TVs like.

John Locke · July 21st, 2003, 10:58 PM

I have to disagree somewhat. HD digital projector's are advancing very rapidly. In fact, I was priivy to see one recently that will hit the market in the near future and it will be affordable and provide excellent resolution. That's in the NEAR future.

Add to that compact HD cameras that, admittedly, have a ways to go...but they're getting there fast, too.

So what will happen when HD digital projector theaters spring up all over the place, and HD cameras are high resolution and affordable? A revolution in filmmaking, that's what!

Filmmakers will be able to make a film that's ready to go to the big screen, without expensive film transfers, and without going through a major distributor. It'll be like micro-breweries, but for film. Make a film, then get it shown.

The big studios and distributors will still hold the reins of the industry, but filmmakers trying to get a break will have more opportunities than ever before.

Peter Moore · July 22nd, 2003, 10:21 AM

"Filmmakers will be able to make a film that's ready to go to the big screen, without expensive film transfers, and without going through a major distributor. It'll be like micro-breweries, but for film. Make a film, then get it shown."

I have a feeling the industry will make sure that never happens by continuing to cripple their cameras like JVC did. Or the projectors in theaters will require some bizarre transport format that costs $50,000 to produce.

David Newman · July 22nd, 2003, 11:40 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Moore : "Filmmakers will be able to make a film that's ready to go to the big screen, without expensive film transfers, and without going through a major distributor. It'll be like micro-breweries, but for film. Make a film, then get it shown."

I have a feeling the industry will make sure that never happens by continuing to cripple their cameras like JVC did. Or the projectors in theaters will require some bizarre transport format that costs $50,000 to produce. -->>>

The good news is this is no longer the case. You can now shoot HDV footage, edit, and output for distribution and projection in Window Media 9. No crippling can stop this. Here is the deal Microsoft has with Landmark Theatres (a great source for indepent film.)

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1000451,00.asp

July 19th, 2003, 03:38 PM	#1
Kris Zimbelman Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Edmond Posts: 139	HD... so what? I was at ultimate electronics the other day examining the new JVC high-definition camcorder. They had it hooked up to high-definition monitor and it delivered a truly remarkable picture. I then asked the salesman "what can I do with this content?" He just smiled and started talking about the new blue Ray DVD players coming out in January of 2004. I asked him if they would be very expensive. He remarked they would be, at first. My point is this; it will probably be at least two years before you even have 30% market penetration of some type of player that will be able to take advantage of high-definition content. I don't know what the statistics are but I don't think that DVD players are in more than 60% of all households right now. And it may be difficult to sway these people into purchasing a new DVD player, especially considering there may be some format wars going on. The bottom line is, while the new high-definition camcorder's are certainly an exciting development, they have little practical use in the immediate future. __________________ 73003

July 20th, 2003, 11:52 AM	#2
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Kris, Actually, we've has some lengthy (and, at times, heated) discussions on this topic. Your position is, to some degree, similar to mine. I was, however, reminded that there are many professional and wannabe-professionals who are shooting material for private corporate and promotional venues (i.e. trade show eye candy) who could make good use of a low-cost HD camera today. Indeed, however, it will be a few years before new daddy's are grabbing HD cameras at Best Buy in significant numbers. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

July 21st, 2003, 05:57 PM	#6
Kris Zimbelman Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Edmond Posts: 139	Peter Moore With the setup you describe using Windows media nine, would you output from your computer via FireWire to the TV? And what would the quality be, 480 P, 720p, times 480 or 1080? __________________ 73003

July 21st, 2003, 10:58 PM	#9
John Locke Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Austin, TX USA Posts: 2,882	I have to disagree somewhat. HD digital projector's are advancing very rapidly. In fact, I was priivy to see one recently that will hit the market in the near future and it will be affordable and provide excellent resolution. That's in the NEAR future. Add to that compact HD cameras that, admittedly, have a ways to go...but they're getting there fast, too. So what will happen when HD digital projector theaters spring up all over the place, and HD cameras are high resolution and affordable? A revolution in filmmaking, that's what! Filmmakers will be able to make a film that's ready to go to the big screen, without expensive film transfers, and without going through a major distributor. It'll be like micro-breweries, but for film. Make a film, then get it shown. The big studios and distributors will still hold the reins of the industry, but filmmakers trying to get a break will have more opportunities than ever before. __________________ John Locke SursumFilms.com

July 21st, 2003, 04:50 AM	#3
Glenn Gipson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Plainfield, New Jersey Posts: 927	Don't forget that HDV not only transfers to 35mm better, but it also extends the life of your programming into the near future, when HDTV sets become more wide spread.

July 21st, 2003, 11:42 AM	#4
Peter Moore Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington VA Posts: 1,034	You also have Windows Media Player 9 HD support, so you could fit at least an hour of footage on a DVD-R for viewing on a computer. Combine that with a Home Theater PC card and you could be watching your footage on an HDTV that way. I hope future HD DVD players also support DVD-R and WMP9 so that us lowly prosumers can still make HD content playable in home players.

July 21st, 2003, 03:30 PM	#5
Marla Mathias New Boot Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Warren, NJ Posts: 5	Well, the new HD10 arrived Friday afternoon. (Thank you all for your help and advice!) I decided to give it as a birthday present to the husband after all instead of the tube socks. He loves it - now he's after me to buy the extended battery and a carrying case (is there a place to get a carrying case?) For me, what makes having this camera worthwhile, is first and foremost that there are things I want to record in HD now. My black lab is getting up there in years, and seeing her on the (relatively) big screen in HD glory is fantastic. Usually cameras make her black eyes disappear in her black hair. With the HD, her eyes are almost more glistening and distinct than in real life. And even if I didn't have an HD projector now, I'd want to have these tapes for the future when HD was more available. She (and who knows what else) may well not be around to tape by the time the next generation of HD appears. But the other thing - HD IS available now, and we're enjoying it now. Just because my next door neighbor doesn't have it yet, just because there are no compatible DVD systems yet, so what? We're having a great time.

July 21st, 2003, 09:29 PM	#7
Michael Hyun Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 46	If your HDTV has a DVI input, and your graphics card has a DVI out, that's pretty much all you need (there are 2 kinds of DVI cables so make sure they are the same type). As for the resolution, that's between your HDTV and your graphics card (most likely 1080i). Do a web search. There is a ton of info out there on this subject.

July 21st, 2003, 10:28 PM	#8
Peter Moore Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington VA Posts: 1,034	Also I'm pretty sure there are HTPC cards that have component outputs. At least there ought to be! But yeah DVI would be the easiest. You'd also need to make sure the resolution of your graphics card was set to 1280 x 720 (most DVI graphics cards support this). Some probably support 1920 x 1080 too. Then just open up Media Player 9, select full screen mode, and voila. To answer the question though, no, firewire would not work, unless you encoded your media to MPEG-2 and had software that could output the type of data TVs like.

July 22nd, 2003, 10:21 AM	#10
Peter Moore Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington VA Posts: 1,034	"Filmmakers will be able to make a film that's ready to go to the big screen, without expensive film transfers, and without going through a major distributor. It'll be like micro-breweries, but for film. Make a film, then get it shown." I have a feeling the industry will make sure that never happens by continuing to cripple their cameras like JVC did. Or the projectors in theaters will require some bizarre transport format that costs $50,000 to produce.

July 22nd, 2003, 11:40 AM	#11
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Moore : "Filmmakers will be able to make a film that's ready to go to the big screen, without expensive film transfers, and without going through a major distributor. It'll be like micro-breweries, but for film. Make a film, then get it shown." I have a feeling the industry will make sure that never happens by continuing to cripple their cameras like JVC did. Or the projectors in theaters will require some bizarre transport format that costs $50,000 to produce. -->>> The good news is this is no longer the case. You can now shoot HDV footage, edit, and output for distribution and projection in Window Media 9. No crippling can stop this. Here is the deal Microsoft has with Landmark Theatres (a great source for indepent film.) http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1000451,00.asp