Owners Thread

Michael Hyun · July 7th, 2003, 06:42 PM

joe,

ur shutter reverts to 1/30th after locking the exposure? are you sure about this? after pushing the exposure lock button using steve's method of cycling through s/a then locking? that doesn't seem right to me.

can you explain exactly what happens?

Joe Russ · July 7th, 2003, 06:44 PM

after looking at the test shots, im thinking about just trading up for the pro model....without the oversharpening the image looks as good as i would think it should. the sharpening creates all sorts of problems with color and detail, enhanced further by the heavy compression.

can some1 post more stills (hd10u) from the pro model?

Heath McKnight · July 7th, 2003, 06:45 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Hyun : joe,

ur shutter reverts to 1/30th after locking the exposure? are you sure about this? after pushing the exposure lock button using steve's method of cycling through s/a then locking? that doesn't seem right to me.

can you explain exactly what happens? -->>>

The HD10 doesn't move the Shutter and Aperature when the camera's exposure is locked.

heath

Joe Russ · July 7th, 2003, 06:55 PM

yep.......i just did the test...several times, and i set it to 1/60 with good lighting and kept changing til i was sure it was set and then set the exposure....locked it, didnt move the camera, still 1/60, as soon as i move it a little it drops to 1/30......i moved the light more into the center.....the picture didnt change but the shutter displayed as 1/30 again....and never went back to 1/60 til i unlocked the exposure.....i couldnt see a difference with my eye but maybe it was just adjusting too subtly for me to tell?

Heath McKnight · July 7th, 2003, 07:00 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Joe Russ : yep.......i just did the test...several times, and i set it to 1/60 with good lighting and kept changing til i was sure it was set and then set the exposure....locked it, didnt move the camera, still 1/60, as soon as i move it a little it drops to 1/30......i moved the light more into the center.....the picture didnt change but the shutter displayed as 1/30 again....and never went back to 1/60 til i unlocked the exposure.....i couldnt see a difference with my eye but maybe it was just adjusting too subtly for me to tell? -->>>

That's weird...I didn't have that problem...

heath

Michael Hyun · July 7th, 2003, 07:04 PM

Joe,

are we talking about the same thing? you can't lock the exposure while it's ur in the S/A mode. you cycle throught the S/A to see if it's holding the shutter and aperture u want.

when you lock it using the exposure wheel (pushing it twice, once quckly, and once holding it) at the front of the camera, you have to be out of the S/A mode. In other words, if u did that and got the L, there would be nothing that would show 1/60th dropping to 1/30th. it would not be on the display. are u sure ur doing this right?

Heath McKnight · July 7th, 2003, 07:10 PM

Try not using the S/A button and hit the exposure button, and adjust up or down until you're happy, then hold the exposure button until the "L" shows up. Skip the S/A button altogether.

heath

Michael Hyun · July 7th, 2003, 07:24 PM

joe, i pulled this from a previous post:

"yah, i have the hd1 and you can do the same thing, but you do lose control of shutter (which is still auto), and shutter is most important to me as well. you just press the exposure button so that the +0/-0 whatever appears on the left, and once its where you like, you hold in the exposure dial for a second or so and the L appears, but, the exposure is locked but the shutter speed is free to do whatever it pleases.....not good at all."

i think you are a little confused by the terminology. exposure doesn't mean the aperature alone. it is affected by both the amount of light let in through the iris and the speed of the shutter.

Thus when you lock the exposure, you are locking BOTH the iris and shutter. you should not be able to see ur shutter speed changing either because it wouldn't be on the display during lock.

what exactly are you doing?

if you want to lock the shutter at 1/60th i found it's quite easy, cuz 1/60th is sticky and won't move from 1/60 until forced to when the amount of light drops below f2.0. it's 1/100 -1/125 that would be hard to lock the exposure on.

Steve Mullen · July 7th, 2003, 07:42 PM

<<<-- I'm curious, because Steve owns an HD1 and has an HD10 (for review) and says the 1/30 and 1/60 thing on the HD1 doesn't apply to the HD10 -->>>

I don't own an HD1.

I can say that with an 8ND filter, the HD10 swings between 1/30th and 1/250th. Pointed at the sky it can will go to 1/250th at f16.

What Ken said will work. But you must check the shutter-speed as I decribed -- or you might lock in a high-shutter speed.

Heath McKnight · July 7th, 2003, 07:45 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen : <<<-- I'm curious, because Steve owns an HD1 and has an HD10 (for review) and says the 1/30 and 1/60 thing on the HD1 doesn't apply to the HD10 -->>>

I don't own an HD1.

I can say that with an 8ND filter, the HD10 swings between 1/30th and 1/250th. Pointed at the sky it can will go to 1/250th at f16.

What Ken said will work. But you must check the shutter-speed as I decribed -- or you might lock in a high-shutter speed. -->>>

Sorry, I thought you said you did own and HD1...whoops.

So why did Ken tell me to ignore the S/A button?

heath

Heath McKnight · July 7th, 2003, 07:53 PM

Steve,

Now would be a good time for that mini-HD guide! Esp. with the shutter/aperature/exposure controls and also how the heck to get the SDK17 to work, step-by-step. I'll purchase that guide in a New York minute!

heath

Steve Mullen · July 7th, 2003, 07:55 PM

<<<-- So why did Ken tell me to ignore the S/A button?

heath -->>>

If you tell JVC you are concerned about fluctuations they'll say what Ken did.

If you say you're concerned about strobing, they'll say use SA.

The point is, you can solve only one concern at a time.

UNLESS you cycle through the SA series as I posted earlier. Then you can be relatively sure that you have locked the speed at what you want.

PS: I care about a FIXED 1/60th or 1/30th shutter-speed so I use SA.

Heath McKnight · July 7th, 2003, 08:14 PM

Thanks.

heath

Michael Hyun · July 7th, 2003, 09:05 PM

hey steve,

do you think i should get a 8x, 4x, and/or 2x ND filter? i figure i'll use it outdoors mostly. what's the advantage of blocking out more light with a higher density filter?

Joe Russ · July 7th, 2003, 09:25 PM

in reply to Michael Hyun:

<< Thus when you lock the exposure, you are locking BOTH the iris and shutter. you should not be able to see ur shutter speed changing either because it wouldn't be on the display during lock.

what exactly are you doing?

if you want to lock the shutter at 1/60th i found it's quite easy, cuz 1/60th is sticky and won't move from 1/60 until forced to when the amount of light drops below f2.0. it's 1/100 -1/125 that would be hard to lock the exposure on.
>>

i did just that, and apparantly its not locking the shutter, i set the camera in good lighting for 1/60, set the shutter to 1/60, set it back to nothing. then set the exposure and locked it, then checked the shutter quickly, its at 1/60th (i believe the aperature was f2.0)....now i move the camera so that the light source that was in the shot is in the center of the screen instead of the upper right. the shot doesnt appear to darken, but the shutter is now 1/30 and i believe the aperature went to f5.6.

ill do more thorough tests tomorrow. hope that cleared things up.

July 7th, 2003, 06:45 PM	#63
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Hyun : joe, ur shutter reverts to 1/30th after locking the exposure? are you sure about this? after pushing the exposure lock button using steve's method of cycling through s/a then locking? that doesn't seem right to me. can you explain exactly what happens? -->>> The HD10 doesn't move the Shutter and Aperature when the camera's exposure is locked. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

July 7th, 2003, 07:00 PM	#65
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	<<<-- Originally posted by Joe Russ : yep.......i just did the test...several times, and i set it to 1/60 with good lighting and kept changing til i was sure it was set and then set the exposure....locked it, didnt move the camera, still 1/60, as soon as i move it a little it drops to 1/30......i moved the light more into the center.....the picture didnt change but the shutter displayed as 1/30 again....and never went back to 1/60 til i unlocked the exposure.....i couldnt see a difference with my eye but maybe it was just adjusting too subtly for me to tell? -->>> That's weird...I didn't have that problem... heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

July 7th, 2003, 07:10 PM	#67
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Try not using the S/A button and hit the exposure button, and adjust up or down until you're happy, then hold the exposure button until the "L" shows up. Skip the S/A button altogether. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

July 7th, 2003, 07:42 PM	#69
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	<<<-- I'm curious, because Steve owns an HD1 and has an HD10 (for review) and says the 1/30 and 1/60 thing on the HD1 doesn't apply to the HD10 -->>> I don't own an HD1. I can say that with an 8ND filter, the HD10 swings between 1/30th and 1/250th. Pointed at the sky it can will go to 1/250th at f16. What Ken said will work. But you must check the shutter-speed as I decribed -- or you might lock in a high-shutter speed. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

July 7th, 2003, 07:45 PM	#70
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen : <<<-- I'm curious, because Steve owns an HD1 and has an HD10 (for review) and says the 1/30 and 1/60 thing on the HD1 doesn't apply to the HD10 -->>> I don't own an HD1. I can say that with an 8ND filter, the HD10 swings between 1/30th and 1/250th. Pointed at the sky it can will go to 1/250th at f16. What Ken said will work. But you must check the shutter-speed as I decribed -- or you might lock in a high-shutter speed. -->>> Sorry, I thought you said you did own and HD1...whoops. So why did Ken tell me to ignore the S/A button? heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

July 7th, 2003, 06:42 PM	#61
Michael Hyun Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 46	joe, ur shutter reverts to 1/30th after locking the exposure? are you sure about this? after pushing the exposure lock button using steve's method of cycling through s/a then locking? that doesn't seem right to me. can you explain exactly what happens?

July 7th, 2003, 06:44 PM	#62
Joe Russ Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 99	after looking at the test shots, im thinking about just trading up for the pro model....without the oversharpening the image looks as good as i would think it should. the sharpening creates all sorts of problems with color and detail, enhanced further by the heavy compression. can some1 post more stills (hd10u) from the pro model?

July 7th, 2003, 06:55 PM	#64
Joe Russ Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 99	yep.......i just did the test...several times, and i set it to 1/60 with good lighting and kept changing til i was sure it was set and then set the exposure....locked it, didnt move the camera, still 1/60, as soon as i move it a little it drops to 1/30......i moved the light more into the center.....the picture didnt change but the shutter displayed as 1/30 again....and never went back to 1/60 til i unlocked the exposure.....i couldnt see a difference with my eye but maybe it was just adjusting too subtly for me to tell?

July 7th, 2003, 07:04 PM	#66
Michael Hyun Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 46	Joe, are we talking about the same thing? you can't lock the exposure while it's ur in the S/A mode. you cycle throught the S/A to see if it's holding the shutter and aperture u want. when you lock it using the exposure wheel (pushing it twice, once quckly, and once holding it) at the front of the camera, you have to be out of the S/A mode. In other words, if u did that and got the L, there would be nothing that would show 1/60th dropping to 1/30th. it would not be on the display. are u sure ur doing this right?

July 7th, 2003, 07:24 PM	#68
Michael Hyun Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 46	joe, i pulled this from a previous post: "yah, i have the hd1 and you can do the same thing, but you do lose control of shutter (which is still auto), and shutter is most important to me as well. you just press the exposure button so that the +0/-0 whatever appears on the left, and once its where you like, you hold in the exposure dial for a second or so and the L appears, but, the exposure is locked but the shutter speed is free to do whatever it pleases.....not good at all." i think you are a little confused by the terminology. exposure doesn't mean the aperature alone. it is affected by both the amount of light let in through the iris and the speed of the shutter. Thus when you lock the exposure, you are locking BOTH the iris and shutter. you should not be able to see ur shutter speed changing either because it wouldn't be on the display during lock. what exactly are you doing? if you want to lock the shutter at 1/60th i found it's quite easy, cuz 1/60th is sticky and won't move from 1/60 until forced to when the amount of light drops below f2.0. it's 1/100 -1/125 that would be hard to lock the exposure on.

July 7th, 2003, 07:53 PM	#71
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Steve, Now would be a good time for that mini-HD guide! Esp. with the shutter/aperature/exposure controls and also how the heck to get the SDK17 to work, step-by-step. I'll purchase that guide in a New York minute! heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

July 7th, 2003, 07:55 PM	#72
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	<<<-- So why did Ken tell me to ignore the S/A button? heath -->>> If you tell JVC you are concerned about fluctuations they'll say what Ken did. If you say you're concerned about strobing, they'll say use SA. The point is, you can solve only one concern at a time. UNLESS you cycle through the SA series as I posted earlier. Then you can be relatively sure that you have locked the speed at what you want. PS: I care about a FIXED 1/60th or 1/30th shutter-speed so I use SA. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

July 7th, 2003, 08:14 PM	#73
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Thanks. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

July 7th, 2003, 09:05 PM	#74
Michael Hyun Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 46	hey steve, do you think i should get a 8x, 4x, and/or 2x ND filter? i figure i'll use it outdoors mostly. what's the advantage of blocking out more light with a higher density filter?

July 7th, 2003, 09:25 PM	#75
Joe Russ Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 99	in reply to Michael Hyun: << Thus when you lock the exposure, you are locking BOTH the iris and shutter. you should not be able to see ur shutter speed changing either because it wouldn't be on the display during lock. what exactly are you doing? if you want to lock the shutter at 1/60th i found it's quite easy, cuz 1/60th is sticky and won't move from 1/60 until forced to when the amount of light drops below f2.0. it's 1/100 -1/125 that would be hard to lock the exposure on. >> i did just that, and apparantly its not locking the shutter, i set the camera in good lighting for 1/60, set the shutter to 1/60, set it back to nothing. then set the exposure and locked it, then checked the shutter quickly, its at 1/60th (i believe the aperature was f2.0)....now i move the camera so that the light source that was in the shot is in the center of the screen instead of the upper right. the shot doesnt appear to darken, but the shutter is now 1/30 and i believe the aperature went to f5.6. ill do more thorough tests tomorrow. hope that cleared things up.