JVC GZ-HD7 (FHD 1920x1080i) & FCP6 ?

Steve Nunez · September 15th, 2007, 05:42 PM

For a 1st camcorder and one not used for pro applications- it's a fine camera. It sorta reminds me of the rest of the Everio Line- just in HD spec!

Steve Mullen · September 20th, 2007, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Ferreira

... if you MPEGstreamclip to AIC your videos on your time line will have to be renderd or you will have to deal with crap video lag with real time.

AIC is widely used for with Sony and JVC "pro" camcorders with no need to render and no "crap video lag with real time." You seem to have a system problem others don't.

Choosing HDV is very negative choice:

1) conversion to HDV takes 2X longer; 60GB will take 27 hours of computation!

2) conversion to HDV requires over 4X more storage space; 60GB will use 260GB of space rather than only 60GB.

Brandon Freer · October 3rd, 2007, 12:03 PM

Hi everyone,

I am new to these forums but I hope I will be able to contribute some good info and learn from those before me as well.

First, I would like to say that I have been using the JVC Everio cameras since the original (now discontinued) JVC GZMC200 4 gb microdrive camera. Despite the bad reviews on other sites, the GZ-HD7 to me is a top notch consumer camera. The constant complaints about OIS to me are being blown out of proportion. I think that most professionals (atleast the ones I have seen at events) use shoulder mounts, tripods, and steadicams regardless of how good the OIS is on any camera. I have been using my collapsible tripod as a temporary steadicam of sorts with great results. My friends that have seen the footage from this camera were all very impressed. But without going into a full review, I will just say that anyone remotely considering the JVC over other brands should not believe everything they read on the net. Play with one and experiment and see if it is a right fit for you.

Moving on to my specific questions....Which codecs and settings have worked out for others with the best results for converting .tod to .mov files.

I have been using MPEG-SC for quite awhile since it was the only app that originally allowed me to convert my .mod files from the original Everio to Quicktime files, but with the new HD-GZ7 I am having a bit more trouble. I am also trying to use QTpro since it can read .tod (with the jvc plugin) to see which gives the best output.

I originally made the mistake of filming in FullHD mode when I first used this camera and I have nearly 3 hours of footage that I have downloaded off the camera to my local HDD. I know that if using 1440 CBR mode I could import straight into iMovie or FCP, but importing the .tod files themselves has not worked well and I am left trying to convert these files to QT or .mov instead.

I have experimented with Sorenson, h.264, hdv, AIC, etc. Using either QTpro or MPEG-SC to convert has always had the same results - stuttering footage and poorly synched sound when viewing the Qt files. The other issue is that the files sizes have sometimes tripled or quadrupled on my machine after the conversion. This in itself is a problem even having a 1TB external drive at my disposal.

If anyone could share their experience with which codecs and what settings that have worked for conversion, while maintaining the highest possible quality for use with iMovie or FCP, I would really appreciate it.

Thank you very much.

Steve Nunez · October 3rd, 2007, 04:13 PM

Try Mpeg Streamclip to HDV 1080i- you'll end up with files you can edit within FCP.

Steve Mullen · October 3rd, 2007, 06:00 PM

A faster alternative to MPEGStream Clip -- shoot 1440CBR and capture via FireWire as HDV.

Brandon Freer · October 3rd, 2007, 07:48 PM

Hey Steve and Steve,

Thank you for the quick responses.

Regarding using MPEG-SC and hdv1080i...I tried this and the quality was good, but the file sizes were still rather large, atleast twice what the original .tod file was. Can you elaborate on what other settings you used for quality, compression and sound for your conversion to hdv1080i?

Regarding shooting in CBR mode, I am definitely going to use CBR in the future, but I have existing footage (specifically a family member's wedding event) that is already on my system and not in the camera anymore.

Thank you again for the helpful tips.

Steve Mullen · October 3rd, 2007, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon Freer

but the file sizes were still rather large, at least twice what the original .tod file was.

1) with FCP you cannot edit in real time if you bring in 1920x1080 AIC or HDV. So, you'll need to downscale to 1440x1080 during conversion.

2) Yes, converting to AIC really requires tons more storage.

3) converting to HDV keeps file sizes the same -- but takes 2X longer.

So if you are disk space limited, convert to HDV and let it work overnight or all day long.

I prefer AIC because time is limited.

Brandon Freer · October 4th, 2007, 09:28 AM

Hey Steve,

Thank you very much for your reply.

I will try this out this weekend and see how it goes. I also will be checking out your book on this camera. It looks like you have a lot of good info in there from what I saw in the contents listing.

Thanks.

Brandon Freer · October 5th, 2007, 08:52 PM

Hi Steve,

I took your advice and tried using the HDV export option to save on filesize. My only concern is that the aspect ratio now seems off. I prefer to do everything in widescreen.

Would I be better off to drop it down to 720x480. All of my projects get compressed for DVD output anyway, which I believe only has a native res of 480i to begin with.

BTW - Nice job on the handbook. I have been going through it and you have definitely put a lot of effort and work into it. Good job! I would highly recommend it to anyone who owns this camera.

Thanks.

Steve Mullen · October 8th, 2007, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon Freer

Hi Steve,

I took your advice and tried using the HDV export option to save on filesize. My only concern is that the aspect ratio now seems off. I prefer to do everything in widescreen.

Would I be better off to drop it down to 720x480. All of my projects get compressed for DVD output anyway, which I believe only has a native res of 480i to begin with.

BTW - Nice job on the handbook. I have been going through it and you have definitely put a lot of effort and work into it. Good job! I would highly recommend it to anyone who owns this camera.

Thanks.

Thank you for the kind words on my Handbook.

I'm not sure why the aspect ratio is off. Try reading the section on conversion to HDV. If you shot FullHD you want to set the output to 1440x1080 that uses the HI quality scaler.

Please let us know how its going.

Russ Hazard · October 16th, 2007, 10:28 AM

Well, too bad I did not find this discussion earlier.

I am a newbie.

I am just trying to break in to some documentary work. I wanted to get started in HD at a reasonable price and then improve equipment bit by bit. I picked up the Everio, a good shotgun mic etc. I finally just made the jump and got a macbok pro and FCS off ebay and was all ready to start shooting and editing. Now, I gather from this discussion that I am going to have some real problems.

So, is it better to shoot at HD rather than FHD...am I understanding correctly that this is the easiest way around these importing/editing problems? HD is still the standard for broadcast quality right?

It is funny because the review posted in this forum says it works fine with Final Cut...A bit of a dramatic blunder for the reveiwer!

I am a bit shocked that JVC would not simply pay to have a proper, simple to use, and time/storage efficient patch made.

Thanks!

Steve Mullen · October 16th, 2007, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ Hazard

Now, I gather from this discussion that I am going to have some real problems.

I'm not sure why you say that given that there are no "problems" with using FCP with the HD7.

The simplest way is to capture 1440CBR via FireWire wire. The alternative is to use MPEG Streamclip to convert files to AIC.

Both paths work perfectly. Where's the "problem?"

Russ Hazard · October 26th, 2007, 09:28 PM

Hmmm, I guess I am just too new at this to realize...

It just seems strange that JVC would have people doing conversions on 3rd party software that either take a long time or a ton of space for a program as heavily used at FC...Not the end of the world I guess. I will switch to the firewire by the sound of it...

Thanks for all the effort in your posts and responses.

It is funny, my version of MPEG SC (I just downloaded 1.9) does not SEEM to give an option to convert to AIC... maybe I am just not looking in the right place but it is not with the rest of the convert commands. I guess I will buy your book to try and figure this out. I am really looking forward to actually editing some of the footage I have taken!! ;)

Thanks again.

Russ

Steve Mullen · October 27th, 2007, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ Hazard

It just seems strange that JVC would have people doing conversions on 3rd party software that either take a long time or a ton of space for a program as heavily used at FC...

Amazingly, Apple still doesn't support 720p50 or 720p60. Nor do they support Sony's 24p. Seems like Apple only cares about supporting Panasonic's DVCPRO formats or now AVCHD.

Avid hasn't added any HDV support in 4 years.

Russ Hazard · October 30th, 2007, 10:19 AM

Is it the JVC ProHD handbook you have as a footnote link..or do you have another one specific to this camera? I just want to make sure before I buy...

The manual for my Mpeg SC does not say it even does conversons from TOD to AIC...and the option does not present in any of the drop downs. I must have the wrong version or be an idiot.

Russ

September 15th, 2007, 05:42 PM	#16
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	For a 1st camcorder and one not used for pro applications- it's a fine camera. It sorta reminds me of the rest of the Everio Line- just in HD spec! __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

October 3rd, 2007, 12:03 PM	#18
Brandon Freer New Boot Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Los Angeles CA Posts: 14	Best Codecs to use for .tod conversion Hi everyone, I am new to these forums but I hope I will be able to contribute some good info and learn from those before me as well. First, I would like to say that I have been using the JVC Everio cameras since the original (now discontinued) JVC GZMC200 4 gb microdrive camera. Despite the bad reviews on other sites, the GZ-HD7 to me is a top notch consumer camera. The constant complaints about OIS to me are being blown out of proportion. I think that most professionals (atleast the ones I have seen at events) use shoulder mounts, tripods, and steadicams regardless of how good the OIS is on any camera. I have been using my collapsible tripod as a temporary steadicam of sorts with great results. My friends that have seen the footage from this camera were all very impressed. But without going into a full review, I will just say that anyone remotely considering the JVC over other brands should not believe everything they read on the net. Play with one and experiment and see if it is a right fit for you. Moving on to my specific questions....Which codecs and settings have worked out for others with the best results for converting .tod to .mov files. I have been using MPEG-SC for quite awhile since it was the only app that originally allowed me to convert my .mod files from the original Everio to Quicktime files, but with the new HD-GZ7 I am having a bit more trouble. I am also trying to use QTpro since it can read .tod (with the jvc plugin) to see which gives the best output. I originally made the mistake of filming in FullHD mode when I first used this camera and I have nearly 3 hours of footage that I have downloaded off the camera to my local HDD. I know that if using 1440 CBR mode I could import straight into iMovie or FCP, but importing the .tod files themselves has not worked well and I am left trying to convert these files to QT or .mov instead. I have experimented with Sorenson, h.264, hdv, AIC, etc. Using either QTpro or MPEG-SC to convert has always had the same results - stuttering footage and poorly synched sound when viewing the Qt files. The other issue is that the files sizes have sometimes tripled or quadrupled on my machine after the conversion. This in itself is a problem even having a 1TB external drive at my disposal. If anyone could share their experience with which codecs and what settings that have worked for conversion, while maintaining the highest possible quality for use with iMovie or FCP, I would really appreciate it. Thank you very much.

October 3rd, 2007, 04:13 PM	#19
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Try Mpeg Streamclip to HDV 1080i- you'll end up with files you can edit within FCP. __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

October 3rd, 2007, 06:00 PM	#20
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	A faster alternative to MPEGStream Clip -- shoot 1440CBR and capture via FireWire as HDV. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

October 5th, 2007, 08:52 PM	#24
Brandon Freer New Boot Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Los Angeles CA Posts: 14	Aspect Ratio Hi Steve, I took your advice and tried using the HDV export option to save on filesize. My only concern is that the aspect ratio now seems off. I prefer to do everything in widescreen. Would I be better off to drop it down to 720x480. All of my projects get compressed for DVD output anyway, which I believe only has a native res of 480i to begin with. BTW - Nice job on the handbook. I have been going through it and you have definitely put a lot of effort and work into it. Good job! I would highly recommend it to anyone who owns this camera. Thanks. __________________ "just because I don't know the meaning of my art, does not mean it has no meaning" - Salvador Dali

October 3rd, 2007, 07:48 PM	#21
Brandon Freer New Boot Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Los Angeles CA Posts: 14	Hey Steve and Steve, Thank you for the quick responses. Regarding using MPEG-SC and hdv1080i...I tried this and the quality was good, but the file sizes were still rather large, atleast twice what the original .tod file was. Can you elaborate on what other settings you used for quality, compression and sound for your conversion to hdv1080i? Regarding shooting in CBR mode, I am definitely going to use CBR in the future, but I have existing footage (specifically a family member's wedding event) that is already on my system and not in the camera anymore. Thank you again for the helpful tips.

October 4th, 2007, 09:28 AM	#23
Brandon Freer New Boot Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Los Angeles CA Posts: 14	Hey Steve, Thank you very much for your reply. I will try this out this weekend and see how it goes. I also will be checking out your book on this camera. It looks like you have a lot of good info in there from what I saw in the contents listing. Thanks.

October 16th, 2007, 10:28 AM	#26
Russ Hazard New Boot Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Peterborough Canada Posts: 16	Strange and irritating Well, too bad I did not find this discussion earlier. I am a newbie. I am just trying to break in to some documentary work. I wanted to get started in HD at a reasonable price and then improve equipment bit by bit. I picked up the Everio, a good shotgun mic etc. I finally just made the jump and got a macbok pro and FCS off ebay and was all ready to start shooting and editing. Now, I gather from this discussion that I am going to have some real problems. So, is it better to shoot at HD rather than FHD...am I understanding correctly that this is the easiest way around these importing/editing problems? HD is still the standard for broadcast quality right? It is funny because the review posted in this forum says it works fine with Final Cut...A bit of a dramatic blunder for the reveiwer! I am a bit shocked that JVC would not simply pay to have a proper, simple to use, and time/storage efficient patch made. Thanks!

October 26th, 2007, 09:28 PM	#28
Russ Hazard New Boot Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Peterborough Canada Posts: 16	Maybe not so bad Hmmm, I guess I am just too new at this to realize... It just seems strange that JVC would have people doing conversions on 3rd party software that either take a long time or a ton of space for a program as heavily used at FC...Not the end of the world I guess. I will switch to the firewire by the sound of it... Thanks for all the effort in your posts and responses. It is funny, my version of MPEG SC (I just downloaded 1.9) does not SEEM to give an option to convert to AIC... maybe I am just not looking in the right place but it is not with the rest of the convert commands. I guess I will buy your book to try and figure this out. I am really looking forward to actually editing some of the footage I have taken!! ;) Thanks again. Russ

October 30th, 2007, 10:19 AM	#30
Russ Hazard New Boot Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Peterborough Canada Posts: 16	Steve...your handbook? Is it the JVC ProHD handbook you have as a footnote link..or do you have another one specific to this camera? I just want to make sure before I buy... The manual for my Mpeg SC does not say it even does conversons from TOD to AIC...and the option does not present in any of the drop downs. I must have the wrong version or be an idiot. Russ