How does the HD7 compare to a top AVCHD camcorder?

[Steve Mullen]

We HD7 owners know we have the only camcorder with full manual controls. It's also the only camcorder that records EZ to edit MPEG-2 at 30Mbps.

But, how does the HD7 compare to one of the top two AVCHD camcorders? These cameras are much newer and use CMOS technology -- not CCDs.

If you click to ExposureRoom you can find a short, informal test of the HD7 and another camcorder. Both cameras are operating using AF but with MWB.

Please leave your guesses of which shot numbers are from which camera in the COMMENTS box. PLEASE DON'T NAME THE HD7.

http://exposureroom.com/members/DVC....3b71882e75c31/

Please make longer comments here.

[Wayne Avanson]

Hi Steve. I definitely prefer the colouring of some of the shots here and I suspect it's the AVCHD one unfortunately.

Since my cam is in for repair for a second time, this experiment is timely and important to me as I don't know whether to keep my HD7 after all, or whether to sell it and buy something else. Believe me, I'm sure not happy about this situation. I would appreciate a PMM on which shot is which as it might help me make up my mind.

Cheers bud.

Beautiful kitty by the way.

[Kaushik Parmar]

Originally Posted by Wayne Avanson

Hi Steve. I definitely prefer the colouring of some of the shots here and I suspect it's the AVCHD one unfortunately.

Since my cam is in for repair for a second time, this experiment is timely and important to me as I don't know whether to keep my HD7 after all, or whether to sell it and buy something else. Believe me, I'm sure not happy about this situation. I would appreciate a PMM on which shot is which as it might help me make up my mind.

Cheers bud.

Beautiful kitty by the way.

Your HD7 went for repaire second time, I am afraid why?

Kaushik

[Kaushik Parmar]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

We HD7 owners know we have the only camcorder with full manual controls. It's also the only camcorder that records EZ to edit MPEG-2 at 30Mbps.

But, how does the HD7 compare to one of the top two AVCHD camcorders? These cameras are much newer and use CMOS technology -- not CCDs.

If you click to ExposureRoom you can find a short, informal test of the HD7 and another camcorder. Both cameras are operating using AF but with MWB.

Please leave your guesses of which shot numbers are from which camera in the COMMENTS box. PLEASE DON'T NAME THE HD7.

Rescued 14wk Kitty in Her First Hour at her New Home By Steve Mullen On ExposureRoom

Please make longer comments here.

Steve,

1,4 & 8 are from "A" and rest are from "B". And if you can do some outdoor shoot that would be good test!

Kaushik

[Wayne Avanson]

Originally Posted by Kaushik Parmar

Your HD7 went for repaire second time, I am afraid why?

Kaushik

Hi Kaushik
Because the white dot came back. Or Rather because I got another white dot in a different area of the screen.

Same happened to Sander Spies too.

Not good.

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Wayne Avanson

Hi Steve. I definitely prefer the colouring of some of the shots here and I suspect it's the AVCHD one unfortunately.

You are correct, MOST but not ALL, of the "nice" looking shots are from the AVCHD camcorder.

But, the kitty doesn't really look that brown! She is mostly black and gray!

I'll post some outdoor shots soon.

PS: Kaushik, not quite the right choices.

[Kaushik Parmar]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

I'll post some outdoor shots soon.

PS: Kaushik, not quite the right choices.

Uum! Ok, but for me it seems 1, 4 & 8 were similar to HD7's colors like, and rest were more pinkish, and HD7 generally not producing pinkish type of color! But you did some color correction so maybe it was due to that!

I would really appreciate if you do some outside test without any color correction I mean to say RAW files!

Kaushik

[Wayne Avanson]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

You are correct, MOST but not ALL, of the "nice" looking shots are from the AVCHD camcorder.

But, the kitty doesn't really look that brown! She is mostly black and gray!

Is it the SR12 by any chance?
I saw some footage on YouTube just today from a Sony and it was very yellow so I'm guessing your new cam is the Sony.

Avey

PS, My wife wants your little kitty. It's a good job you're six thousand miles away or she'd be round there in a flash.

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Wayne Avanson

Is it the SR12 by any chance?
I saw some footage on YouTube just today from a Sony and it was very yellow so I'm guessing your new cam is the Sony.

Avey

PS, My wife wants your little kitty. It's a good job you're six thousand miles away or she'd be round there in a flash.

Yes -- it's the Sony SR12.

"Sita" is very thin. YESTERDAY she only wanted homemade chicken. Until then she refused everything after eating it ONCE. Today she doesn't want the chicken. Vet says no worms, etc.

On top of this our big guy (rescued last year) stopped eating when new kitty arrived. Spent $600 yesterday to see what was wrong with him. Couldn't find anything. We are going nuts.

Your wife will like this I shot last year:
New Kitties By Steve Mullen On ExposureRoom

[Wayne Avanson]

Nope. I'd better not show here these.

Nice one Steve

Avey

[Dave Blackhurst]

1 is the SR, and maybe 3 5, & 8. The close up shots are harder to tell because of the shallower DOF resulting in much of the frame being a bit out of focus.

Between 1&2 is perhaps the most telling - 1 has sharper detail and better lattitude vs. 2.

I'm presuming of course that the codecs used for posting/rendering didn't alter the footage...

FWIW, without shooting IDENTICAL footage with two cams side by side so you can see how each cam handles the SAME shot is an iffy "test".

I bracketed the CX7 and and SR11 so I was framing almost identical shots, overlaid them on the timeline and switched back and forth until I decided one was in fact SLIGHTLY superior (the SR in all cases), but the generational differences were very minor - I've shot those cams in multicam, and there's simply not enough difference to get excited over.

Your test does help address "cam-itis" - presuming your HD cam is working OK, the "upgrade" is probably insignificant in many cases for most shooters. For me tapeless was a sufficient draw to make the change, but there would have to be some MAJOR improvements in the next generation to justify upgrading IMO...

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

1 is the SR, and maybe 3 5, & 8. The close up shots are harder to tell because of the shallower DOF resulting in much of the frame being a bit out of focus.

Between 1&2 is perhaps the most telling - 1 has sharper detail and better lattitude vs. 2.

our test does help address "cam-itis" - presuming your HD cam is working OK, the "upgrade" is probably insignificant in many cases for most shooters. For me tapeless was a sufficient draw to make the change, but there would have to be some MAJOR improvements in the next generation to justify upgrading IMO...

Interesting that the more saturated shots were seen as BETTER (the SR) although they were less color accurate.

Your last point is significant when we are all short of cash.

I keep wondering, since the HD7 eliminates tape but uses MPEG-2 (HDV), did the world have any real need for another REALLY different video format? What exactly video- and audio-wise is the advantage to us of AVCHD? And, why did Sony get involved with Pana? Certainly they and JVC could have agreed to "redefine" HDV as a non-tape format? Or, called it "HDV+" which is what it is.

[Wayne Avanson]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

I keep wondering, since the HD7 eliminates tape but uses MPEG-2 (HDV), did the world have any real need for another REALLY different video format? What exactly video- and audio-wise is the advantage to us of AVCHD? And, why did Sony get involved with Pana? Certainly they and JVC could have agreed to "redefine" HDV as a non-tape format? Or, called it "HDV+" which is what it is.

Marketing politics as usual I reckon. Everyone wants to be part or the latest and supposedly best format/form factor/storage solution etc etc. That's why we seem to be in a mess regarding so many formats and codecs for DV nowadays. Just my disgruntled two penneth…

Avey

[Dave Blackhurst]

It wasn't so much more saturated - I noticed a certain murky-ness to the blacks on what I presume from all your posts was the HD7 - almost showed up as a blue-ish haloing, frankly reminded me of how the HV20 behaved - seemed to me that the manufacturer was so intent on the black end of the curve being "black", it became just overly dark and contrasty.

Sony tends to sway the other direction, thus why typically pulling back the "auto" exposure a notch or two yields a bit better result many times...

The question is do you want to blow the highlights or lose the shadows? You can't replace that what ain't there once you record, and the one thing about my test between the CX7 and the SR11 was that there was simply MORE detail in the darker end of the curve - the CX7 (and your shots with the JVC) didn't look "bad", but when you're looking to get the most data (in the shadows) into your NLE, having more latittude helps things ENORMOUSLY!!! That's what stuck out about the SR11, along with smoother gradients in tough to shoot things like sky...

Personally I can muck things up in post rather nicely, but I want as much detail and raw data about what I shot "in the cam". If it's a little too hot (or cold) on saturation, I can fix that easily, but if it's soft or filled with garbage bits, not a lot I can do.

[Mark Cinense]

so my guess is 1, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 8 are the Sony 2 and 7 are the HD7.

I could be wrong, but since I just got the HD7 from Steve and it shoots different than the one I was borrowing. My guess is that the one I was borrowing may have had a problem.

I am still new to the videography thing and don't really have any camera experience. I'm a sound guy.