Rendering in HD at DVinfo.net

Ray Grizzle · October 26th, 2007, 07:18 PM

So, I've edited in Vegas 7.0e, and I want to render it. What's the best format to render out to? I've been playing around with some different formats, but I'd like some suggestions, please.

John Hong · October 26th, 2007, 09:06 PM

What do you intend to do with it? If its for archival sakes, then normally what I would do in the SD world is use a free reliable lossless codec like Huffyuv (if AVI) or Animation (if QT). But since this is HD, I can't imagine how much hard drive space they'd consume...

Is this for the web? If so then I guess take your pick between WMV, Divx/Xvid, or Real. If for DVD, well, you're choice is only MPEG2.

Ray Grizzle · October 26th, 2007, 09:18 PM

Thanks for the advice, sorry I wasn't more specific. What about rendering it out to edit in Adobe After Effects.

John Hong · October 26th, 2007, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Grizzle

Thanks for the advice, sorry I wasn't more specific. What about rendering it out to edit in Adobe After Effects.

Oh, the same would definitely apply in regards with archiving... Use a lossless codec. With that said, it will be quite large simply due to the fact its at an HD resolution.

So depending on your platform... If After Effects under Windows (use Huffyuv) or if After Effects under Mac (use Animation). What you'd do afterwards is probably make a low-res version of it to use as a proxy while in After Effects.

Ray Grizzle · October 27th, 2007, 05:42 PM

Hmmm. I rendered as a Huffyuv AVI, and when I played it, it was extremely choppy and slow. Do you have any advice? I downloaded Kaushik Parmar's videos, and although they are .MPG's not .AVI's, played fine. So I'm not sure if it's my computer or what.

John Hong · October 27th, 2007, 07:44 PM

What's the specs of your computer? I'm guessing its probably a lag due to the massive size and the needed computer power for a Huffyuv file of an HD resolution.

You should probably work with a proxy. It'll prove to be faster in the long run.

Ray Grizzle · October 27th, 2007, 09:16 PM

Please forgive me for being such a novice, but, what is a proxy?

John Hong · October 28th, 2007, 03:48 PM

Have you ever done any editing on Avid or Final Cut? Basically, it sort of follows a simple principle where you work with low-res footage and when you're finished what you've edited, you'd re-digitize the footage with the full blown high res. This is so that when you've got hundreds of hours of footage to work with, but have no where near the drive space necessary to have it all in a high-res form.

Basically, in your case, instead of working with a full blown 1920x1080 (or 1440x1080), you'd work with something that your computer can manage more easily, like 720x486 or even less in some circumstances. In a nut shell that's what a proxy is. It's a low-res version of the source media that you're using. Then when it comes time to render your sequence out...switch from the low-res to the high-res.

Steve Mullen · October 28th, 2007, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Hong

It's a low-res version of the source media that you're using. Then when it comes time to render your sequence out...switch from the low-res to the high-res.

Using a Proxy has two limitations. First, it requires a frame accurate VTR and RS-422 (not FireWire) control. ONLY the expensive Sony 1500 VTR has both. So Proxy based editing is not EZ to to do with HDV.

Second, if someone is moving footage to AE they need to work on the full quality material. So the question is what codec should be used.

With FCP the answer is simple -- ProRes 422. On the PC it could be any 4:2:2 codec that does "virtually lossless" compression. CineForm's codec is ideal on the PC.

The fact the resulting file cannot be played smoothly is NOT important going to AE. AE does not play anything with FX smoothly unless RAM preview is used. So Huffyuv AVI may be fine for the job.

PS: The fact is that HDV may be perfectly acceptable. I certainly would try it!

Ray Grizzle · October 28th, 2007, 11:41 PM

Okay, thank you, John, I understand now. Thank you for your patience with me.I'll try it out and experiment. I've done some editing with FCP, but I've yet to use Avid.

Also, thanks for the advice, Steve. Have you finished your review of the HD7? I'd be very interested in reading it. I'm also planning to buy your handbook within the next few days(when the transfer into paypal is done). You mentioned that HDV is still a good way to go, I'm interested in experimenting, but I'm a little confused about the difference between CBR and VBR.

Again, thank you guys for the help. I really love this camera, and I'm just trying to smooth out the kinks.

Steve Mullen · October 29th, 2007, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Grizzle

I'm interested in experimenting, but I'm a little confused about the difference between CBR and VBR.

CBR MUST be used for tape recording.

The AVERAGE data rate for VBR is usually set at the value of CBR recording. On the HD7, both are about 27Mbps.

In theory, the fact that VBR's data rate can increase to about 30Mbps for complex scenes should make VBR look better for tuff scenes.

The fact the FullHD mode has 33% more pixels than does does 1440CBR mode means FullHD INHERENTLY is more complex so the ability to bump the data rate is very nice.

Maybe VBR can, but I've never seen any difference.

October 26th, 2007, 07:18 PM	#1
Ray Grizzle Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: San Diego California Posts: 35	Rendering in HD So, I've edited in Vegas 7.0e, and I want to render it. What's the best format to render out to? I've been playing around with some different formats, but I'd like some suggestions, please.

October 26th, 2007, 09:06 PM	#2
John Hong New Boot Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 10	Depends... What do you intend to do with it? If its for archival sakes, then normally what I would do in the SD world is use a free reliable lossless codec like Huffyuv (if AVI) or Animation (if QT). But since this is HD, I can't imagine how much hard drive space they'd consume... Is this for the web? If so then I guess take your pick between WMV, Divx/Xvid, or Real. If for DVD, well, you're choice is only MPEG2.

October 26th, 2007, 09:18 PM	#3
Ray Grizzle Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: San Diego California Posts: 35	Thanks for the advice, sorry I wasn't more specific. What about rendering it out to edit in Adobe After Effects.

October 27th, 2007, 05:42 PM	#5
Ray Grizzle Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: San Diego California Posts: 35	Hmmm. I rendered as a Huffyuv AVI, and when I played it, it was extremely choppy and slow. Do you have any advice? I downloaded Kaushik Parmar's videos, and although they are .MPG's not .AVI's, played fine. So I'm not sure if it's my computer or what.

October 27th, 2007, 07:44 PM	#6
John Hong New Boot Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 10	What's the specs of your computer? I'm guessing its probably a lag due to the massive size and the needed computer power for a Huffyuv file of an HD resolution. You should probably work with a proxy. It'll prove to be faster in the long run.

October 27th, 2007, 09:16 PM	#7
Ray Grizzle Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: San Diego California Posts: 35	Please forgive me for being such a novice, but, what is a proxy?

October 28th, 2007, 03:48 PM	#8
John Hong New Boot Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 10	Have you ever done any editing on Avid or Final Cut? Basically, it sort of follows a simple principle where you work with low-res footage and when you're finished what you've edited, you'd re-digitize the footage with the full blown high res. This is so that when you've got hundreds of hours of footage to work with, but have no where near the drive space necessary to have it all in a high-res form. Basically, in your case, instead of working with a full blown 1920x1080 (or 1440x1080), you'd work with something that your computer can manage more easily, like 720x486 or even less in some circumstances. In a nut shell that's what a proxy is. It's a low-res version of the source media that you're using. Then when it comes time to render your sequence out...switch from the low-res to the high-res.

October 28th, 2007, 11:41 PM	#10
Ray Grizzle Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: San Diego California Posts: 35	Okay, thank you, John, I understand now. Thank you for your patience with me.I'll try it out and experiment. I've done some editing with FCP, but I've yet to use Avid. Also, thanks for the advice, Steve. Have you finished your review of the HD7? I'd be very interested in reading it. I'm also planning to buy your handbook within the next few days(when the transfer into paypal is done). You mentioned that HDV is still a good way to go, I'm interested in experimenting, but I'm a little confused about the difference between CBR and VBR. Again, thank you guys for the help. I really love this camera, and I'm just trying to smooth out the kinks.