More GZ-HD7 Questions

[Julian Maytum]

In regards to the GZ-HD7; I haven't seen it get any favourable reviews on the Internet. I know because I was seriously pondering this camera to replace my Sony's I use for home movies currently. I wish it did as it is fairly affordable and beats hauling out the HD110u (when I get one).

As an aside, is there any way to edit the footage from one of these things yet?

Regards,

Julian

[Steve Mullen]

In regards to the GZ-HD7; I haven't seen it get any favourable reviews on the Internet. As an aside, is there any way to edit the footage from one of these things yet? Julian

1) You likely read the camcorderinfo.com review which has multiple issues IMHO.

2) At the price point it attracted point-and-shooters who loved its sexy look, but care only about low-light and OIS. Unfortunately, these are the camera's weakest points. The high points include a true exposure control system that avoids having to enter the camcorder setup menu. It's all buttons. This is what I care about. And, it offers the rez of an HVX200 and the color rendition of an Z1. (I compared it to an Z1. Both cameras looked very similar despite a 3X price difference.)

3) JVC produced a "manual" that is a pamphlet. The product has dozens and dozens of features, and it took weeks to find and figure-out how the HD7 works. No wonder buyers freaked out. I just finished my review of the hardware and it's almost 4,000 words.

3) Unlike the HD1/HD10 which had no software that worked, the HD7 is bundled with software that works. However, most Americans are not going to use Cyber... software -- they use Vegas or Premiere, etc; I suspect many buyers never found the links to the information sites as they were buried deep in the manual (should have on an insert sheet); FCP can't use the TOD files although JVC suggests FCP can be used for editing.

It took a while to understand that TOD was .M2TS a version of .M2T and to work out multiple workflows for everything from Media Composer, FCP, Vegas, EDIUS, and Liquid. (Still need to work on Premier.) But the typical buyer should not have been expected to do this. Next week I'll start documenting the workflows.

4) But the biggest error is JVC never gave the format a NAME! When you combine this with reviewers and buyers who don't understand that 1440CBR MPEG-2 *is* "HDV on Disk or SD Card" you find them bitching that the HD7 "isn't an HDV camcorder." Total confusion.

Having been through over a year of bad reviews of the HD1 and HD10 while I knew dozens of folks in NYC producing HD with both -- I'm not surprised to see history repeat itself. In fact, the only thing that still blows my mind is how much negative BS continues to flow about HDV itself. Go to an Avid list and they are still claiming HDV can't be edited. "Those pesky long GOPs will confuse your computer." :)

Sorry for ranting, but my JVC HD1 still works fine after 4 years of shooting. And, I love the HD7 despite its flaws. Not too big and not too small. Cheap too.

[Julian Maytum]

Steve:

Major thanks for the update. I really do take all the info I find with a large pinch of salt and it was nice to see you clear up a lot of the information out there.

I am pondering it purely for personal use and getting an HD110u soon for pro purposes. I will have a look around and see what sort of a deal I can get on one. Living in Canada sucks at times as all the "local" dealers want astronomical amounts of money for camera's even when the dollar is almost at par with the US dollar. I'll check out eBay and even B&H (where I plan to get the HD110u from) and go from there.

Thanks again!

Julian

[Chris Hurd]

This discussion was split out from http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=100138

[David Parks]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

1)
It took only a weekend to understand that TOD was .M2TS a version of .M2T and to work out multiple workflows for everything from Media Composer, FCP, Vegas, EDIUS, and Liquid. (Still need to work on Premier.) But the typical buyer should not have been expected to do this. Next week I'll start documenting the workflows.

Steve,

I look forward to seeing an HD7 workflow for Avid. I'm looking at this camera for a "B" camera and cheap "run and gun". I'm speculating that MPEG Streamclip would convert M2TS to DNXHD, but it's a guess on my part.

Thanks for your info.

[Steve Mullen]

Correct. And Composer edits the 1920x1080 in RT.

As soon as the weather gets sunny again in LV I'll shoot some shots to match HD250 shots I have. I've found a good deinterlacer that correctly converts 1920x1080 60i to 1280x720 60p. So far it looks like the HD7 may be a good B cam.

[Alan Ortiz]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Correct. And Composer edits the 1920x1080 in RT.

As soon as the weather gets sunny again in LV I'll shoot some shots to match HD250 shots I have. I've found a good deinterlacer that correctly converts 1920x1080 60i to 1280x720 60p. So far it looks like the HD7 may be a good B cam.

Hi Steve. Im really interested in this camera. Im needing to sell my HD100 and slow down as I prepare for a hiatus from professional videography. This seems like a solid and versatile camera to take on deployments. Which deinterlacer? And do you think its better to buy the PAL version for its 50i to 25p and then slowing in the timeline, or to simply go from 60i to 24p?

Alan

[Kaushik Parmar]

Guys!

It is been more than five months since I am using GZHD7 and I am fully satisfied, I have already posted some videos here in this forum captured by me, if someone would like to see them I can post them again.

Kaushik

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Kaushik Parmar

Guys!

It is been more than five months since I am using GZHD7 and I am fully satisfied, I have already posted some videos here in this forum captured by me, if someone would like to see them I can post them again.

Kaushik

Glad you like it too. For several weeks I shot with my old HD1 and the new HD7. I'm a real fan of 720p, but I've got to admit the HD7 is a much better camcorder. I only wish the JVC Consumer Division would let the world know that TOD can be edited by most NLEs. Of course, I guess that would be read as non-support for the bundled software.

I use 1440CBR mode because it keeps everything compatible with other stuff I shot using HDV. What are you using for editing? In fact, that's a good question for all owners who read this post. Let us know your experiences!

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Alan Ortiz

Hi Steve. Im really interested in this camera. Im needing to sell my HD100 and slow down as I prepare for a hiatus from professional videography. This seems like a solid and versatile camera to take on deployments. Which deinterlacer? And do you think its better to buy the PAL version for its 50i to 25p and then slowing in the timeline, or to simply go from 60i to 24p?

Alan

1080i50 can be deinterlaced to 720p50. When you say "versatile camera to take on deployments" -- what do you mean?

[Alan Ortiz]

Hmmm interesting. Thanks! Ill be entering the active duty army in January as a 2LT in the Signal Corps. I'm looking for a good camera to take with me to dabble with when I have time. I think I'd die inside if i couldn't at least shoot and edit a few projects for myself from time to time.

[Kaushik Parmar]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Glad you like it too. For several weeks I shot with my old HD1 and the new HD7. I'm a real fan of 720p, but I've got to admit the HD7 is a much better camcorder. I only wish the JVC Consumer Division would let the world know that TOD can be edited by most NLEs. Of course, I guess that would be read as non-support for the bundled software.

I use 1440CBR mode because it keeps everything compatible with other stuff I shot using HDV. What are you using for editing? In fact, that's a good question for all owners who read this post. Let us know your experiences!

Steve,

Thank you for your comment; I am using supplied Cyber Link’s PowerDirector. I upgraded PowerDirector 5 to PowerDirector 6, and I am happy with it. I am new at this HD Camcorder and this is my first ever camcorder and it is HD! I am very much satisfied.

I wanted to buy good editing software and I tried trial version of Sony Vegas, but I found it very complicated and much expensive compare to PowerDirector. Then I downloaded Adobe’s latest trial version but I am not able to use it I don’t know why? But then I went for PowerDirector 6 and I am happy.

Please guys go through below link you will see my all posting and views & suggestion on my posted videos. After reading this disscusion maybe it will help someone who wants to buy JVC GZHD7. And here are some of my clips which I uploaded on www.youtube.com

These clips would be low resolution but I have same clips in full HD version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2F7UWitG9o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGLY9NegdLc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-ZOd5ldNFM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv60OWq-UNg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyt7b_4wNaA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sboZaO5enSk


Below are views & feedback on my posted videos, this comments would really helps who wants to buy JVC GZHD7, please read them:

Dear Kaushik,
I've managed to watch both "The Temple" and the "Play Ground".
You seem to have found a way to reduce the shakes of this camera, and to compensate for the "underperformance" (to use the JVC official term) of its OIS. That's really good news.
The colours in "Play ground" are very attractive and pleasant to the eye. Have you done any post colour-processing?. "The Temple" demonstrates the Evario's main problem: the inability to deal with highlights (the white cars, the bright shirt with the squares pattern). Of course, all consumer cameras can't handle highlights as smoothly as professional cameras, but JVC has really screwed up here. I think you can reduce this a bit by using the manual mode and slightly underexposing, when filming in bright daylight.
Generally, I think you should reduce your frequent panning and zooming, which "bother" the eye even more in HD, due to its limitations in capturing movement smoothly.
Cheers.

And finally it did work well...
I think you should get an Academy Award in the new category of "Delivering Steady Shots With the JVC GZ-HD7E".

Some of the shots were not white balanced properly, and had a bluish touch. Maybe this is the tendency of this cam, because the Temple clip, while not as bluish as this, is also a bit cold. If you have the time, you could try manual white balancing, and also manual exposure, since every now and then the strong backlight influenced the camera's light-metering and your subjects were underexposed.

Your camera is often slandered over the net for its relatively low resolution (for an HD camera), but after viewing your clips full-screen using the Pan-And-Scan feature of my DVD player, it is obvious that its resolution is at least higher then the higher-end SD camcorders.

Cheers.

Hey Kaushik, Nice vids. I watched the first two. These look much much better than the first go round. I still have not seen the third one. Did you color correct any of these shots? OIS on or off? I do see some artificial sharpening (I think it's called edge enhancements) in the Temple shot.

Also some blown out highlights...for exapmle: the shot where the two guys were standing and the trees were in the background you can see the whites in the sky was blown out. In the same scene when they were walking, the guy in the front (folding his arms), his striped shirt was missing some patterns due to the overblown whites. I don't know if you had it on automatic but I understand the HV20 has the same problem in automatic (i wouldn't know..I use manual all of the time). If I had to guess I bet you shot this in manual mode. You could fix that by pulling down the Iris a notch or two. As you zoomed in closer however the patterns started to show more.

The colors look great as I would have expected from this 3CCD cam. I see your getting more comfortable with this cam..yes? So can we soon expect a documentary from you? A short movie? An epic advenure??? A Speilberg Jr?


I downloaded the first one. Was this handheld or on a monopod/tripod? It looks a bit too steady through most of it to be on a tripod, considering the poor OIS of this camera.

Panning and zooming at the same time is a difficult technique and you really need to have the camera on a fuid based tripod to do that smoothly. But also consider that as you zoom, the pan speed becomes more critical especially if you are trying to keep the subject firmly in the centre. I recommend in early stages that you don't attempt to pan and zoom at the same time.

Also if you are going to try an effect such as shooting through the metal fence, you must use manual focus, as the camera will get confused on the object you are trying to focus as you zoom.

Jonathan

Ok..so I downloaded the other two...Thank you for sharing. I hope you don't mind me saying I was laughing a bit. The reason being, that you seemed to spend a long time filming family members who had emotions on their faces that suggested they were praying you stopped filming them! Perhaps your aim was purely family shots, but it was at the expense of soaking up that fantastic New York atmosphere....a combination of its buildings and its people. This is just a suggestion but try to storyboard what you are trying to capture and then work out the actions of each scene. For example, you could start a shot at one of the buildings at the top of the skyline...pan downwards slowly to reveal the busy streets of New York watching the people of New York going about their daily business...if you want to inject some family into it....have one of your family members walk across the street with the New York population as if they were one of them. That way, to a stranger watching the clip, they won't know who it is but will enjoy the scenes of NY..but when you watch it, it wil have a more special meaning.

I am curious. I saw some of your very early footage and it was shakier than an Earthquake. What is your technique with this camera that has essentially improved things significantly in terms of hand holding steadiness?

Also I noticed you chose to downscale to 720p resolutions instead of 1080i. Was that intentional?

The trouble points are still the panning and zooming particularly on the temple shot. Slow those pans right down. However slow you think you need to go, go even slower. If someone is walking to one side of the image frame and towards you at the same time....zoom first, then pan if neccessary. You are not going to succeed at doing both together without a tripod or a lot of practice. If the pan goes wrong, just cut it out in the editor and treat as a scene break. Your editor seems to be introducing a pause between each scene though...what were you using?
________________________________________
Rush:

I finally got all three clips downloaded, yes they are large 314, 207 and 143 MB's so they take a while to get.

The New York Times Square is pretty good. It depends on what pleases you and your audience.

I was surprised how smooth the camera was held. It is not perfect but generally very smooth compared to what I have seen in the past from various people and various camcorders. It is the smoothest GZHD7 hand held video I have seen so far.

I kind of agree with jonstatt's comments (except the family members). I have years of "home movies" with family members. Your family members move. Mine do not, they just stand still and stare at the camcorder.

There are segments in the video where someone is specifically talking to the camera for example at 0:43 the guy in the red/maroon jacket seems to have something to say, but we don't know what he is saying.

A lot of your pans are actually pretty good. The bad pans detract too much from the good ones. In the beginning you were doing good with the pans but at 0:15 you tilted the camcorder slightly which becomes obvious.

The scene starting at 1:25 going to ~1:49 starts off nice, I like the blur of the traffic but the panning and zooming is off a bit. Some of it looks like you are hunting for a target and not sure what you want to film. You might try planning a pan first, just moving through the pan without shooting a few times, then shoot the pan.

What did the family and friends say about the video?

Rich


PS: If some would like to see my clips do let me know I will upload them again, and follow below link and download it, this clip is captured by new JVC GZHD3, I already seen downloaded and it is indeed beautiful clip, I would say new JVC GZHD3 would be also good buy! Here is link: http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/do...12/ez_samp.m2t

[Steve Mullen]

Then I downloaded Adobe’s latest trial version but I am not able to use it I don’t know why?

MPEG_2 NOT SUPPORTED IN TRIAL VERSION.

I think you can reduce this a bit by using the manual mode and slightly underexposing, when filming in bright daylight.

CORRECT -- down 2/3 stop is usually right.

Generally, I think you should reduce your frequent panning and zooming, which "bother" the eye even more in HD, due to its limitations in capturing movement smoothly.

THE BEST POSSIBLE SUGGESTION. ALMOST never zoom and ONLY pan when following a moving subject.

Some of the shots were not white balanced properly, and had a bluish touch.

IN MOST CASES, if there are light scinned people in a shot, you MUST color correct. There's a section in my book where I show how to use color correction to get the best results.

Did you color correct any of these shots? OIS on or off?

WHEN FOLKS POST VIDEOS it would be nice if they posted how they shot and edited.

I recommend in early stages that you don't attempt to pan and zoom at the same time.

BRAVO

[Kaushik Parmar]

Steve Mullen,

Thank you very much for your advice.

Kaushik

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Alan Ortiz

Hmmm interesting. Thanks! Ill be entering the active duty army in January as a 2LT in the Signal Corps. I'm looking for a good camera to take with me to dabble with when I have time.

My first order for my GZ-HD7 HANDBOOK was from Irag. About an hour it was available for sale. Seems HDV is not great as the sand is very hard on tape. Harddisk is really ideal.