Editing 4:2:2 without conversion?

Alex Humphrey · July 20th, 2017, 08:54 AM

Question: Does everyone find the new update for 4:2:2 workflow worth it at 4K? I've only just barely had time to test it a little while shooting at some mixed primary color still life so I haven't done enough to make an opinion. Not having C4K but 4K UHD format is not a deal breaker... and FCPX seems to play the 4K 422 footage fine. But being 8 bit not 10 bit 422 instead of 420 didn't leap off the monitor on curved reds or seem to have much more leeway in post. But I've only shot 5 minutes of footage just to make sure the firmware update worked. Does anyone have a 420, 422 8 bit comparison they have done that shows it off? (thinking stills full sized png or something would be great)

Thanks

Nick Haman · July 20th, 2017, 10:02 AM

For me, it hasn't changed the workflow at all, so I'd say it's well worth it. I still edit straight out the camera.

I've never really understood why someone wouldn't use the absolute best settings in camera. You can't cut a piece of string longer, so its better to start with too much right?

4:2:2 is a lot more colour than 4:2:0, check this video out for better info:

Then the whole 10bit, 8bit thing - 8bit grades fine, just don't push it. No one in the real world will ever tell if you're footage was 10 or 8bit unless you're overdoing the grade. Hell some of the grades on Canon DSLRs 10 years ago looked amazing, but no one was talking about it at all then. Of course, as I said above, if your camera can shoot 10bit 4:2:2, then go for it, but I think the GH5 has made people obsess over things that don't really matter. For example, the movie 'Tangerine was shot on an iPhone 5s and looks amazing despite that.

Christopher Young · July 20th, 2017, 10:18 AM

Does anyone know if this re-wrapping to MXF has been tried with Panasonic's 10-bit 422 files by anyone?

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

William Hohauser · July 20th, 2017, 01:15 PM

On the Mac side, EditReady may cover this problem. You can download a demo and see if that helps.

Lee Powell · July 20th, 2017, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Haman

Then the whole 10bit, 8bit thing - 8bit grades fine, just don't push it. No one in the real world will ever tell if you're footage was 10 or 8bit unless you're overdoing the grade.... Of course, as I said above, if your camera can shoot 10bit 4:2:2, then go for it, but I think the GH5 has made people obsess over things that don't really matter. [/url]

The low-down on Panasonic's Vlog-L profile is that it clips all highlights at 79 IRE, discarding the entire 80-109 IRE range. That combined with its black level pedestal leaves GH4 internal Vlog-L recordings with only 7-bits of color depth, and 10-bit GH5 recordings with 9-bit color depth. The LS-300's J-log1 profile uses the full 8-bit range, and has 50% more bitrate in 4K mode, 150Mbps versus 100Mbps on both GH4 and GH5. The bottom line is that Panasonic Vlog-L footage is excessively washed out, sacrifices tonal depth in favor of dynamic range, and never quite stands up to JVC J-log1 footage in gradable image quality. None of these MFT cameras are great at high ISO's, but with enough light to bury the FPN noise, the LS300 can deliver virtually flawless 4K J-log1 footage in 8-bit 4:2:2 color depth.

Cary Knoop · July 20th, 2017, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Powell

The LS-300's J-log1 profile uses the full 8-bit range, and has 50% more bitrate in 4K mode, 150Mbps versus 100Mbps on both GH4 and GH5.

The GH5 records up to150Mbps (and a 400Mpbs All-Intra is coming).

Lee Powell · July 21st, 2017, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cary Knoop

The GH5 records up to150Mbps (and a 400Mpbs All-Intra is coming).

Ah, thanks, my bad. I was thinking about the GH4/5 8-bit 4:2:0 modes, 100Mbps max. The 10-bit 4:2:2 modes have higher bitrates.

Al Slamecka · July 21st, 2017, 06:21 AM

I took a look at EditReady for Mac and it only supports MXF as an input file format. The Rewrap function within EditReady only outputs .MOV and JVC 422 files are still not recognized after rewrap.

There are other programs for Mac that I will investigate as the earlier mentioned ffmeg solution contains .exe files that only make it suitable for Windows users. If anyone is using a Mac program to rewrap MOV to MXF, please let us know.

July 20th, 2017, 08:54 AM	#16
Alex Humphrey Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: california North and South Posts: 642	Re: Editing 4:2:2 without conversion? Question: Does everyone find the new update for 4:2:2 workflow worth it at 4K? I've only just barely had time to test it a little while shooting at some mixed primary color still life so I haven't done enough to make an opinion. Not having C4K but 4K UHD format is not a deal breaker... and FCPX seems to play the 4K 422 footage fine. But being 8 bit not 10 bit 422 instead of 420 didn't leap off the monitor on curved reds or seem to have much more leeway in post. But I've only shot 5 minutes of footage just to make sure the firmware update worked. Does anyone have a 420, 422 8 bit comparison they have done that shows it off? (thinking stills full sized png or something would be great) Thanks

July 20th, 2017, 10:02 AM	#17
Nick Haman Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Utrecht Posts: 88	Re: Editing 4:2:2 without conversion? For me, it hasn't changed the workflow at all, so I'd say it's well worth it. I still edit straight out the camera. I've never really understood why someone wouldn't use the absolute best settings in camera. You can't cut a piece of string longer, so its better to start with too much right? 4:2:2 is a lot more colour than 4:2:0, check this video out for better info: Ask Alex - The 411 on 4:4:4 - YouTube Then the whole 10bit, 8bit thing - 8bit grades fine, just don't push it. No one in the real world will ever tell if you're footage was 10 or 8bit unless you're overdoing the grade. Hell some of the grades on Canon DSLRs 10 years ago looked amazing, but no one was talking about it at all then. Of course, as I said above, if your camera can shoot 10bit 4:2:2, then go for it, but I think the GH5 has made people obsess over things that don't really matter. For example, the movie 'Tangerine was shot on an iPhone 5s and looks amazing despite that. Tangerine - Red Band Trailer - YouTube

July 20th, 2017, 10:18 AM	#18
Christopher Young Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,571	Re: Editing 4:2:2 without conversion? Does anyone know if this re-wrapping to MXF has been tried with Panasonic's 10-bit 422 files by anyone? Chris Young CYV Productions Sydney

July 20th, 2017, 01:15 PM	#19
William Hohauser Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 2,650	Re: Editing 4:2:2 without conversion? On the Mac side, EditReady may cover this problem. You can download a demo and see if that helps. __________________ William Hohauser - New York City Producer/Edit/Camera/Animation

July 21st, 2017, 06:21 AM	#23
Al Slamecka New Boot Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Atlanta Georgia Posts: 19	Re: Editing 4:2:2 without conversion? I took a look at EditReady for Mac and it only supports MXF as an input file format. The Rewrap function within EditReady only outputs .MOV and JVC 422 files are still not recognized after rewrap. There are other programs for Mac that I will investigate as the earlier mentioned ffmeg solution contains .exe files that only make it suitable for Windows users. If anyone is using a Mac program to rewrap MOV to MXF, please let us know.