Using B4 lenses?

George Odell · February 23rd, 2017, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay P. Kaley

...I haven't used 'DSLR' type zooms yet, still don't know how they match the function of that old school ENG type servo...

It may seem like "old school" to have servo zoom but if you grew up shooting that way, like me and some others here, I'm sure, it's a hard thing to give up in the name of progress. Especially when it really is, IMHO, the correct way to shoot.

My later version 14X Fujinon SD zoom had a snap zoom function. Press a button and it fully zooms to maximum telephoto in less than as second. Focus up and release and it pops right back to the exact focal length position is was before you hit the button. Adjust your framing and keep shooting.

Fujinon has their new Cabrio series "large sensor format" servo zoom lens selling for something like $40k. Used it and like it but it rents for more than most HD cameras it goes on.

William Hohauser · February 23rd, 2017, 03:33 PM

As I said, "Be surprised".

That looked much better than I anticipated. I would be interested in how it looks filming at 24p instead of 60p. The close-ups of the birds and the dog running had an interesting feel to them. The wide shots seemed to flatten out as if the black levels were rising up along with the exposure when you zoomed out. Is that happening? You should check with the waveform monitor in FCPX.

There are no DSLR zooms that function as well as this Fuji you have adapted. Image wise the DSLR zooms have the Fuji beat.

Jay P. Kaley · February 23rd, 2017, 03:35 PM

Yes I was surprised, I think the bird CUs have some interesting 'texture' to them. You think those wide shots would be improved a bit in the settings? Still learning histograms, never used them either. Yep I should have shot some at 24p, slipped my mind.

And yep the DSLR's have the picture, but man that servo handgrip does have the performance if necessary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Odell

It may seem like "old school" to have servo zoom but if you grew up shooting that way, like me and some others here, I'm sure, it's a hard thing to give up in the name of progress. Especially when it really is, IMHO, the correct way to shoot.

I'm right there with you on 'old school', I'm ingrained from shooting 10 years on an ENG lens in the 90s, took some time off then got back into event stuff with the shoulder form JVC HM700, a drone and a go-pro on a gimbal. I've never shot on the camcorder style large sensor.

On the modern ENG cameras with modern zooms, I don't understand where the money goes, didn't understand it back then and don't now. 1/3" chip is 2k and a 2/3 is 40k, but they can sell a full frame sized chip for 3k.

And it's been said before, but I don't understand the barrier to dropping the LS300 chip into the HM850 body. I guess the big zoom lens would be too expensive, but I don't know.

Steve Rosen · February 23rd, 2017, 08:13 PM

Different strokes for different folks - I hated the servo-zoom and removed it from my Fujinon on my HPX500 so I could have tactile control of the lens, zoom and iris... In fact it cost me $400 to have it re-mounted when I sold the lens..

I dislike any auto function that takes away from the practiced skill of the cinematographer, but that's just me, I'm old school,...

Jay P. Kaley · February 23rd, 2017, 09:24 PM

Yep variety is the spice of life. I can't imagine removing the servo motor from an HPX500, that is different strokes. Depends on what you need to use the tool for I guess. I shot news and football games for years, would have been tough to near impossible to produce good results without a servo drive, using it correctly for the best results is another sort of skill.

Steve when you use a lens like your Olympus 12-40mm you manual zoom it? It may be a dumb question but does that lens have a power zoom or is it manual zoom?

Steve Rosen · February 24th, 2017, 08:49 AM

No, the Olympus 12-40 doesn't have a power zoom - it doesn't even have stabilization... but it's a terrific lens for the money - it's very sharp and holds the maximum aperture through the zoom range, a big deal with any lens that was originally intended for still work.

I shoot intimate documentaries, almost totally handheld, and don't use servos for a variety of reasons.
1) I shot for 40 years on film cameras that don't have servos, so I learned how to zoom manually.
2) I generally don't like zooms in shots, I find them distracting - the exception is a slow move into a person's face at an emotional moment, and I'm capable of doing that manually.
3) On ENG cameras, I could never get used to using the lens as a grip, it's ergonomically all wrong - I always employ rails and remote grips from my film cameras (like Aaton). Consequently I removed the servo on the HPX 500 (and DSR300 years before) to have easier manual control of the lens.
4) I can start and stop a zoom better manually if I chose to use one... Some servos jerk noticeably at the head to tail of a zoom.

Jay P. Kaley · February 24th, 2017, 04:30 PM

It is interesting the different approaches and what you get used to, and I understand what you're saying about not using zooms in a shot too, I'm not a big fan of that either, except like you said for a slow push in to an emotional interview moment. For me it's just the habit of going in for the CU on the servo, not so much using the zoom in the shot.

Then there is shooting sports at a high professional level, using that servo all day to get in tight at high speed then back out again quick and in focus is an art in itself. And a servo can be used without the jerking stop/start motion, like anything it gets better with practice, I can get that superslow, almost imperceptible zoom with the servo too.

Funny how muscle memory works, I keep reaching for the phantom handgrip.

Christopher Young · February 26th, 2017, 01:29 PM

[QUOTE=George Odell;1927942
What is the low down on using one of these on this camera with an adapter strickly for shooting 1080I... no 4K work? [/QUOTE]

Back in 2015 I had a test run with the 300 and an SD B4 lens running an MTF adapter. If it's of any help you could download and have a look at his file to give you an idea of how the combo performed. The clip can be downloaded from here:

https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/wwej5r

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

On location in the UK... Brrrr!

Jay P. Kaley · March 7th, 2017, 03:42 PM

Ended up with a different lens, similar to the one previous but with a longer range, 19x instead of 14x, and in a little better condition.

FUJI A19x8.7, with the "Y" type rail support, possible use for long-zoom sports or a different look effect.

February 23rd, 2017, 03:33 PM	#32
William Hohauser Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 2,650	Re: Using B4 lenses? As I said, "Be surprised". That looked much better than I anticipated. I would be interested in how it looks filming at 24p instead of 60p. The close-ups of the birds and the dog running had an interesting feel to them. The wide shots seemed to flatten out as if the black levels were rising up along with the exposure when you zoomed out. Is that happening? You should check with the waveform monitor in FCPX. There are no DSLR zooms that function as well as this Fuji you have adapted. Image wise the DSLR zooms have the Fuji beat. __________________ William Hohauser - New York City Producer/Edit/Camera/Animation

February 23rd, 2017, 08:13 PM	#34
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Re: Using B4 lenses? Different strokes for different folks - I hated the servo-zoom and removed it from my Fujinon on my HPX500 so I could have tactile control of the lens, zoom and iris... In fact it cost me $400 to have it re-mounted when I sold the lens.. I dislike any auto function that takes away from the practiced skill of the cinematographer, but that's just me, I'm old school,...

February 23rd, 2017, 09:24 PM	#35
Jay P. Kaley Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Chattanooga TN Posts: 117	Re: Using B4 lenses? Yep variety is the spice of life. I can't imagine removing the servo motor from an HPX500, that is different strokes. Depends on what you need to use the tool for I guess. I shot news and football games for years, would have been tough to near impossible to produce good results without a servo drive, using it correctly for the best results is another sort of skill. Steve when you use a lens like your Olympus 12-40mm you manual zoom it? It may be a dumb question but does that lens have a power zoom or is it manual zoom?

February 24th, 2017, 08:49 AM	#36
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Re: Using B4 lenses? No, the Olympus 12-40 doesn't have a power zoom - it doesn't even have stabilization... but it's a terrific lens for the money - it's very sharp and holds the maximum aperture through the zoom range, a big deal with any lens that was originally intended for still work. I shoot intimate documentaries, almost totally handheld, and don't use servos for a variety of reasons. 1) I shot for 40 years on film cameras that don't have servos, so I learned how to zoom manually. 2) I generally don't like zooms in shots, I find them distracting - the exception is a slow move into a person's face at an emotional moment, and I'm capable of doing that manually. 3) On ENG cameras, I could never get used to using the lens as a grip, it's ergonomically all wrong - I always employ rails and remote grips from my film cameras (like Aaton). Consequently I removed the servo on the HPX 500 (and DSR300 years before) to have easier manual control of the lens. 4) I can start and stop a zoom better manually if I chose to use one... Some servos jerk noticeably at the head to tail of a zoom.

February 24th, 2017, 04:30 PM	#37
Jay P. Kaley Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Chattanooga TN Posts: 117	Re: Using B4 lenses? It is interesting the different approaches and what you get used to, and I understand what you're saying about not using zooms in a shot too, I'm not a big fan of that either, except like you said for a slow push in to an emotional interview moment. For me it's just the habit of going in for the CU on the servo, not so much using the zoom in the shot. Then there is shooting sports at a high professional level, using that servo all day to get in tight at high speed then back out again quick and in focus is an art in itself. And a servo can be used without the jerking stop/start motion, like anything it gets better with practice, I can get that superslow, almost imperceptible zoom with the servo too. Funny how muscle memory works, I keep reaching for the phantom handgrip.

February 26th, 2017, 01:29 PM	#38
Christopher Young Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	Re: Using B4 lenses? [QUOTE=George Odell;1927942 What is the low down on using one of these on this camera with an adapter strickly for shooting 1080I... no 4K work? [/QUOTE] Back in 2015 I had a test run with the 300 and an SD B4 lens running an MTF adapter. If it's of any help you could download and have a look at his file to give you an idea of how the combo performed. The clip can be downloaded from here: https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/wwej5r Chris Young CYV Productions Sydney On location in the UK... Brrrr!

March 7th, 2017, 03:42 PM	#39
Jay P. Kaley Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Chattanooga TN Posts: 117	Re: Using B4 lenses? Ended up with a different lens, similar to the one previous but with a longer range, 19x instead of 14x, and in a little better condition. FUJI A19x8.7, with the "Y" type rail support, possible use for long-zoom sports or a different look effect.