Just about to get a LS3000 ... my concerns

[Marcello Mazzilli]

I might be asking too much now, and it might be out of subject, but I am really interested in understanding how these camera work regarding sensor, bits and compression. This is as I understand it (obviously simplifing)

SENSOR captures image at 12 bit at the max. speed possible it's able (from latest FW upgrade we understand that LS300 is capable at least of 60p at 4k)
SENSOR Passes 12 bit image to a PRE-PROCESSOR (thus there is bandwidth from sensor to pre-processor)
PRE-PROCESSOR creates a 10bit (or 8bit... we don't know) image eventually applying color setting, or LUT
PRE PROCESSOR sends image to PROCESSOR (so there is bandwidth between PRE-PROCESSOR and PROCESSOR or full non compressed video, either in 10bit or only in 8bit) and/or to DIRECT OUTPUTS
PROCESSOR compresses image to whatever standard we selected (ie: 50mbit, 422, HD) and sends it to the RECORDER (thus there is bandwidth maximum, in the LS300 for example here we write 150mbit)

So.. as far as I understand it, there is enough bandwidth to pass RAW signal from sensor to PRE-PROCESSOR at 12bit and enough bandwidth to pass uncompressed/colour-fixed signal (we don't know if 10bit or 8bit only) from the PRE-PROCESSOR to both direct outputs and/or PROCESSOR for compressing and then recording.

Am I correct until now?

Let's say the bandwidth between pre-processor and processor is "only" 422 1080p FullHD 60p should be around 1,2Gbit. The same bandwidth could be used for a 10bit transmisson, for example for Full HD 25p 422... but is this technically possible? Can the pre-processor be firmware upgraded to do 10bit (keeping the bandwidth limit) ?

[Duncan Craig]

I'd suggest you get the Panasonic 12-35 and 35-100 lenses. You'll get at least a 24-200 equivalent at fairly constant f2.8 and they can bought at very reasonable prices. Otherwise you have non-stabilised Olympus lenses which offer better zoom ranges, are better built, but more expensive.

[Marcello Mazzilli]

I think it goes roughly by 1,5x .. it is a MFT mount but a Super35 sensor

[Duncan Craig]

What... Crop Factor? Yes it's 1.5x or there abouts.

[Lee Powell]

Originally Posted by Duncan Craig

I'd suggest you get the Panasonic 12-35 and 35-100 lenses. You'll get at least a 24-200 equivalent at fairly constant f2.8 and they can bought at very reasonable prices. Otherwise you have non-stabilised Olympus lenses which offer better zoom ranges, are better built, but more expensive.

The optical stabilization (Power-OIS) on the Panasonic f2.8 zooms is unstable when panning, making them hunt and stutter no matter how smoothly you finish your pan. Combine that with their focus shift and iris flicker while zooming, and you get an unsatisfactory electronic simulation of a mechanical zoom lens. That's why I recommend the Panasonic 42.5mm f1.7 prime - it's the only LS300-compatible lens I've found that has stable OIS suitable for video shooting.

Also, the Panasonic 14-140mm zooms are even worse choices for video than the f2.8 zooms. They are consumer lenses intended for use in sunlit auto-everything mode.

[William Hohauser]

The 14-140 is nearly unusable in natural light indoor conditions on the LS300, a very dark lens. For whatever reason it works better on the GH cameras in the same conditions. Works OK with bright lights.

I have never used anything but primes on the LS300 and with the Virtual Zoom it's covered all my filming needs.

[Marcello Mazzilli]

More and more confused....

[B.J. Adams]

@Marcello I was in the same situation last summer. Do I get the LS300 or the Ursa Mini 4K? I had a fixed budget so I could only afford one of those. In the end I got the LS300 and all is fine :)

If you want 10bit, forget the LS300, just get a GH5... Indeed as soon as the GH5 goes down a little bit in price, I will sell my Nikon and get a GH5 as a 2nd cam

[Duncan Craig]

Marcello, this was all shot handheld with the 12-35 (and a little of 35-100), I used a very basic shoulder support and I had two radio mic receivers hanging on my back pockets:

YouTube (Short URL)

It's a run and gun type job, where I have no control over the initial judging session. The interviews are done very quickly, one take each, just a camera light and handheld shotgun mic.

Personally I've found the 12-35/35-100 combo to be alright for video work. Nowhere near as good as a proper stabilised video lens, but usable. They do sometimes 'stick' a little on the subject at the start of a move, but I find if I perform a more determined move, the sticking is masked by the move. If i'm holding a sustained long handheld shot and I'm tired then the stabilisation with cause the picture to drift around a little but it's not a nasty jumping, I can live with it. YMMV.

I don't often zoom shots on the lens, I prefer slower creeping VSM zooms or do it in post. Also the exposure jumps while zooming on the lens aren't all that bad in my experience.

[Marcello Mazzilli]

Thank you Duncan... Yes.. seems to work fine for me. Thing is I own many EF lenses and I'd like to avoid start buing many MFT ones... As I said, if yI could find a one-soeds-it-all would be great, otherwise, my one-does-it-all could be my 24-105mm EF. Is a 4.0 but with a Metabone will become faster.

PS. Is it just an impression or REDS shift to MAGENTA a bit? I found this also in some JLog files I found on the net. Am I wrong?

[Marcello Mazzilli]

I've found this test that is really interesting... What do you think?

Impossible Shot Shootout/Review-- GH2, GH4, em5 mkII, JVC LS 300, Sony FS 5 - YouTube

By the way.. Many people seem to have problem with the ND. Could a firmware update at least display a huge ND ON sign for 3 seconds to tell people they might havetouched the jog wheel ?

[Noa Put]

Many people seem to have problem with the ND. Could a firmware update at least display a huge ND ON sign for 3 seconds

No problem here, the ND does not accidentally turn on, you have to physically turn the knob, at least, that's my experience, it also says in the viewfinder if the ND is off or if on what ND you have selected.

[Marcello Mazzilli]

What I read is that many people touch it by accident either using focus or follow focus or by holding the camera with the palm underneath.... Also, it should show it in the LCD too as the VF seems to be really sh** and unusable.

[B.J. Adams]

I use a rig. I never turned on/off the ND by accident. Could never understand what all these "problems" with the ND knob where about. Since this is a mechanical knob, it has to be located on the front between the lens and sensor. It could be that some people do not like the location of the knob.... well no camera is perfect. I use BM Ursa Mini, I use RED... they all have some cons, because every person works different

[Duncan Craig]

Agreed, no problems here.

It would be nice if the knob could be made shorter somehow so that it doesn't protrude from the front of the camera, then you could fit an Aputure DEC or Regain onto the LS300.