LS300 Honeymoon over

Noa Put · November 7th, 2015, 01:18 PM

Thx a lot Steve, that's very useful info. I have a 7,5mm, 9-18mm, 12mm, 25mm, 42,5mm 75mm, 12-35mm and 14-140mm, all native m4/3 lenses. The only lens left on my list is the voightlander 17,5mm f0.95 so as you can see I"m buried pretty deep into the MFT system, any change to another brand would be a too expensive exercise. If the ursa mini would have had a mft mount I might have considered it.

I recently saw a comparison between a gh4 and the ls300 and saw the ls300 had a much wider fov compared to the gh4 with the same lens, does this camera not have a 2.3 cropfactor in 4K like the gh4 has?

Steve Rosen · November 7th, 2015, 01:41 PM

I have no idea about the G Panasonics - I am not a DSLR fan...

If you spring for an LS300, let me know how that 14-140 works out. I think you'll really like the 12-35 with this camera though - I used to have one, but got the Olympus because it doesn't darken 1/3 stop when zoomed in, has a little more throw and has a nice manual focus feature.

BTW - I 've been asked several times about my choice to set the VSM at 92%. With the 12-40 it vignettes very slightly on the bottom right corner, but it's hardly noticeable. With the 35-100 and Nokton there's no vignetting at all. That's the cool thing about VSM - you're not stuck with the sensor size the manufacturer gives you.

Noa Put · November 7th, 2015, 02:01 PM

I just looked it up and this was the video I saw, That's quite a big difference and makes wide angles lenses much wider and more useful compared to a gh4

Steve Rosen · November 7th, 2015, 07:53 PM

I was shooting B roll today for a client film I'm making on tourism. I was at a golf course near the beach on the Monterey Peninsula. For the heck of it I purposely over exposed two shots in order to test the 8 bit response of the LS300.

Bottom line - don't do it! Do not over or under expose with this camera. If the exposure is well in the ballpark, the image is excellent. Go outside the ballpark and it turns to s__t. The macro blocking can be a real problem, and prevents you from "saving" a shot.

I've gotten real spoiled with the BM cameras - with them you can be all over the place and ball yourself out in post. The LS300 reminds me of the old days, shooting Ektachrome (look, spellcheck doesn't even know "Ektachrome - how sad). Anyway, even with J-Log, there isn't much room because of the 8 bit limitation, which is much worse than the 8 bit with the old AF100, or my C100.

Oh well, it just makes you more careful.

Noa Put · November 8th, 2015, 05:04 AM

Quote:

there isn't much room because of the 8 bit limitation, which is much worse than the 8 bit with the old AF100, or my C100.

Isn't the c100 not H.264 24mbs 8bit 4:2:0? How is it possible that the H.264 50 mbs 4:2:2 8bit codec is much worse on the ls300?

Steve Rosen · November 8th, 2015, 08:50 AM

I have no idea...it may be some other factor like the sensor. I've used the C100 since it was introduced and loved it at first, but really like the picture from the LS300 better now - and it's 4.2.2.

To be honest I've never tortured the picture from the C100 as much as my test yesterday, so maybe it would be as bad... I'm working 7 day weeks right now, so I don't have time for a side by side, but I'll try that in a week or two - or three... Well, by Christmas anyway.

Lee Powell · November 8th, 2015, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Rosen

Do not over or under expose with this camera. If the exposure is well in the ballpark, the image is excellent. Go outside the ballpark and it turns to s__t. The macro blocking can be a real problem, and prevents you from "saving" a shot.

In Rec 709 mode (i.e. not V-Log), the LS300 can be set up to record highlights in the superwhite range, with a rolloff knee from 100-108%. When played back on Rec 709 system, these highlights will appear to be crushed, but they can be easily recovered by lowering highlight or master gain down to 90%. The viewfinder histogram can also be set up to display the superwhite range in red, allowing you to judge how much the highlights are being compressed.

Here's an example of LS300 highlight recovery, shot in Rec 709 mode:

Steve Rosen · November 9th, 2015, 09:45 AM

The two sets of videos above (GH4 and highlights) demonstrate some of the other strengths of the LS300 (beside the Prime Zoom feature). Compared to most everything out there, it's a no brainer, especially if you already have native MFT lenses.

Some might think I've complained or been over critical because of some of my experiences. But I think forums like this should be honest and fair about the products. I'm not an LS300 fan-boy, but I do really like most things about the camera.

Here's something else I don't like though - it's not about the camera per se, but about the package it's being sold with. I bought mine bundled with a Metabones EF-MFT adapter. It doesn't work well. The iris control stops working just when you need it. You literally have to shut down and restart to get it working again, and even then it often doesn't.

And the AF is a joke - after I performed the V1.82 firmware upgrade, my 24-105 just makes horrible grinding noises.

I wrote to Metabones Support and they asked me to provide a video demonstrating the problem (this was their same response to a previous issue I had with another of their products). How do you make a video of the fact that the iris control is unreliable? Besides, I don't have the time.

So, my simple advice - DO NOT BUY METABONES ADAPTERS for this camera!

Lee Powell · November 9th, 2015, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Rosen

I bought mine bundled with a Metabones EF-MFT adapter. It doesn't work well. The iris control stops working just when you need it. You literally have to shut down and restart to get it working again, and even then it often doesn't.

And the AF is a joke - after I performed the V1.82 firmware upgrade, my 24-105 just makes horrible grinding noises.

Metabones MFT adapters use completely different means to control aperture on Canon lens than on Nikon and other mechanically operated lenses. Nikon lenses, regardless of whether they have an aperture ring, use a mechanical lever protruding from the lens base to set aperture via lens mount control. Metabones uses a mechanically geared ring on their Nikon adapters to enable manual control of lens aperture. While this ring cannot be calibrated in f-stops, it can be set accurately and repeatably. I use both standard and speedbooster versions of Metabones Nikon-to-MFT adapters on the LS300 and their fit and stepless aperture rings work better than any other MFT adapter I've tried.

Steve Rosen · November 9th, 2015, 03:37 PM

Lee - that's good information - unfortunately not for me since I've never invested in Nikon lenses because of the focus direction.

It's interesting that the EF mount is so prevalent on new cameras... I have the 24-105 and EFS 17-55, and compared to the MFT Olympus 12-40 and Lumix 35-100 they are noticeably inferior on this sensor - well, to be honest the 17-55 is close, but not at 2.8.

I would have never opted for the adapter, it just came as a bundle - I should have gotten the Rokinon instead.

Noa Put · November 9th, 2015, 03:49 PM

Jvc seems to bundle a lot with this camera, maybe sales are not as expected, in Belgium/the Netherlands the camera is sold body only, in the UK I have seen it with lenses bundled. Currently it's 2890 euro (3100 dollar) excl tax which looks like a good price. I think I"ll possible order it this week

Lee Powell · November 9th, 2015, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Rosen

I should have gotten the Rokinon instead.

I have the Rokinon 35mm and 85mm T1.5 Cine lenses in Nikon mount. They're both sharp enough for 4K resolution and the gears work smoothly with follow focus. Their image circles are wide enough to use at 100% Super 35 VSM, even with the Metabones 0.7x Speedbooster. Not all Nikon lenses can do this, some will vignette with the Speedbooster on the LS300's Super 35 sensor.

Steve Rosen · November 9th, 2015, 05:25 PM

Noa: I think you'll be very happy, as long as there are no problems (most people haven't had them). However, be sure you get the camera from a company that you have a track record with, or one with a good support reputation.

In the states B&H, even though essentially a "box store" has a very good return policy - I should know, I've returned more than several cameras with them, either for exchange or refund - including two LS300s.

Work it out the first day, testing all the buttons etc. I think you'll find it more robust than some have said - the entire nose piece is metal, not plastic, and the "plasticky" feel is really deceptive. But I've read that those fiddly little plastic buttons have caused some problems, either sticking or not responding.

I shot outside all morning yesterday, a half marathon, both tripod and handheld - and the footage is terrific. No problems, and I almost filled up a 64GB card. When it works like it should (and you nail your exposure) it blows the doors off the competition.

Steve Rosen · November 9th, 2015, 05:27 PM

Lee - what effective stop are you getting with the speedbooster?

Lee Powell · November 9th, 2015, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Rosen

Lee - what effective stop are you getting with the speedbooster?

Hard to say, but it's definitely brighter than f1.4. In 1080p mode, VSM+speedbooster makes the Rokinon 85mm a 60-140mm parfocal zoom, literally a dream come true. The 35mm is nearly as sharp, but it's a bit front-heavy on the LS300, not as compact as the 85mm.

I also agree on the build quality of the LS300, it's sturdier than it appears. I've used the camera outdoors for hours in 80-degree direct sunlight with no overheating or malfunction. Compared to the Panasonic AF100 I had before, the LS300's case is pretty comparable, and I wouldn't expect either of them to survive a fallen tripod unscathed. The detachable handle on the LS300 is remarkably solid - I have 15mm rails, follow focus, and a 5-inch monitor mounted on top and it doesn't wobble at all. The viewfinder and ND filter knob feel flimsy, but the rest of the controls have worked reliably every time.

November 7th, 2015, 01:18 PM	#16
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over Thx a lot Steve, that's very useful info. I have a 7,5mm, 9-18mm, 12mm, 25mm, 42,5mm 75mm, 12-35mm and 14-140mm, all native m4/3 lenses. The only lens left on my list is the voightlander 17,5mm f0.95 so as you can see I"m buried pretty deep into the MFT system, any change to another brand would be a too expensive exercise. If the ursa mini would have had a mft mount I might have considered it. I recently saw a comparison between a gh4 and the ls300 and saw the ls300 had a much wider fov compared to the gh4 with the same lens, does this camera not have a 2.3 cropfactor in 4K like the gh4 has?

November 7th, 2015, 01:41 PM	#17
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over I have no idea about the G Panasonics - I am not a DSLR fan... If you spring for an LS300, let me know how that 14-140 works out. I think you'll really like the 12-35 with this camera though - I used to have one, but got the Olympus because it doesn't darken 1/3 stop when zoomed in, has a little more throw and has a nice manual focus feature. BTW - I 've been asked several times about my choice to set the VSM at 92%. With the 12-40 it vignettes very slightly on the bottom right corner, but it's hardly noticeable. With the 35-100 and Nokton there's no vignetting at all. That's the cool thing about VSM - you're not stuck with the sensor size the manufacturer gives you.

November 7th, 2015, 02:01 PM	#18
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over I just looked it up and this was the video I saw, That's quite a big difference and makes wide angles lenses much wider and more useful compared to a gh4 YouTube (Short URL)

November 7th, 2015, 07:53 PM	#19
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over I was shooting B roll today for a client film I'm making on tourism. I was at a golf course near the beach on the Monterey Peninsula. For the heck of it I purposely over exposed two shots in order to test the 8 bit response of the LS300. Bottom line - don't do it! Do not over or under expose with this camera. If the exposure is well in the ballpark, the image is excellent. Go outside the ballpark and it turns to s__t. The macro blocking can be a real problem, and prevents you from "saving" a shot. I've gotten real spoiled with the BM cameras - with them you can be all over the place and ball yourself out in post. The LS300 reminds me of the old days, shooting Ektachrome (look, spellcheck doesn't even know "Ektachrome - how sad). Anyway, even with J-Log, there isn't much room because of the 8 bit limitation, which is much worse than the 8 bit with the old AF100, or my C100. Oh well, it just makes you more careful.

November 8th, 2015, 08:50 AM	#21
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over I have no idea...it may be some other factor like the sensor. I've used the C100 since it was introduced and loved it at first, but really like the picture from the LS300 better now - and it's 4.2.2. To be honest I've never tortured the picture from the C100 as much as my test yesterday, so maybe it would be as bad... I'm working 7 day weeks right now, so I don't have time for a side by side, but I'll try that in a week or two - or three... Well, by Christmas anyway.

November 9th, 2015, 09:45 AM	#23
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over The two sets of videos above (GH4 and highlights) demonstrate some of the other strengths of the LS300 (beside the Prime Zoom feature). Compared to most everything out there, it's a no brainer, especially if you already have native MFT lenses. Some might think I've complained or been over critical because of some of my experiences. But I think forums like this should be honest and fair about the products. I'm not an LS300 fan-boy, but I do really like most things about the camera. Here's something else I don't like though - it's not about the camera per se, but about the package it's being sold with. I bought mine bundled with a Metabones EF-MFT adapter. It doesn't work well. The iris control stops working just when you need it. You literally have to shut down and restart to get it working again, and even then it often doesn't. And the AF is a joke - after I performed the V1.82 firmware upgrade, my 24-105 just makes horrible grinding noises. I wrote to Metabones Support and they asked me to provide a video demonstrating the problem (this was their same response to a previous issue I had with another of their products). How do you make a video of the fact that the iris control is unreliable? Besides, I don't have the time. So, my simple advice - DO NOT BUY METABONES ADAPTERS for this camera! Last edited by Steve Rosen; November 9th, 2015 at 02:02 PM.

November 9th, 2015, 03:37 PM	#25
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over Lee - that's good information - unfortunately not for me since I've never invested in Nikon lenses because of the focus direction. It's interesting that the EF mount is so prevalent on new cameras... I have the 24-105 and EFS 17-55, and compared to the MFT Olympus 12-40 and Lumix 35-100 they are noticeably inferior on this sensor - well, to be honest the 17-55 is close, but not at 2.8. I would have never opted for the adapter, it just came as a bundle - I should have gotten the Rokinon instead.

November 9th, 2015, 03:49 PM	#26
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over Jvc seems to bundle a lot with this camera, maybe sales are not as expected, in Belgium/the Netherlands the camera is sold body only, in the UK I have seen it with lenses bundled. Currently it's 2890 euro (3100 dollar) excl tax which looks like a good price. I think I"ll possible order it this week

November 9th, 2015, 05:25 PM	#28
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over Noa: I think you'll be very happy, as long as there are no problems (most people haven't had them). However, be sure you get the camera from a company that you have a track record with, or one with a good support reputation. In the states B&H, even though essentially a "box store" has a very good return policy - I should know, I've returned more than several cameras with them, either for exchange or refund - including two LS300s. Work it out the first day, testing all the buttons etc. I think you'll find it more robust than some have said - the entire nose piece is metal, not plastic, and the "plasticky" feel is really deceptive. But I've read that those fiddly little plastic buttons have caused some problems, either sticking or not responding. I shot outside all morning yesterday, a half marathon, both tripod and handheld - and the footage is terrific. No problems, and I almost filled up a 64GB card. When it works like it should (and you nail your exposure) it blows the doors off the competition.

November 9th, 2015, 05:27 PM	#29
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over Lee - what effective stop are you getting with the speedbooster?