Vision 3 for cranes? at DVinfo.net

Eugene Kim · May 22nd, 2005, 12:12 PM

Would it be ok to use my Vinten Vision 3 head with those low-priced cranes/jibs out their that attach to the tripod, quick-release, mounting plate (i.e. the Studio One DV Jib Arm, the Kessler Crane, etc., etc.)?

On one hand the Vinten can be counterbalanced up to 22lbs., and it is sooo smooth. I feel like it'd definitely give me the best results of pretty much any other head in this class with these low-priced cranes. But at the same time, I don't want to mess with it, because well it's somewhat precious and expensive in and of itself.

I've been told that these cranes that attach to the quick release plates put a lot of stress on the head, and will wear them out prematurely.

Is this so? (I ask, because others seem to use these things just fine.) Should I just forget about using my Vinten for such work?

Thanks.

Dan Selakovich · May 23rd, 2005, 08:15 AM

I never understood companies that designed cranes to rest on a fluid head. Even if it doesn't wear out your head, you can't set up another shot without taking down the crane. I like to have a tripod devoted to crane work and have my head and sticks on the ready for a 2nd camera or simply to save time, which is so fleeting on a set, to pick up non-crane shots. It's also very important to have the crane tripod level. What if your head isn't locked down properly, and the crane starts to drift? Things can get nasty in a hurry! Obviously, I'd never get a crane that attaches to a head, but I'm sure there are those that have had no problems at all.

Dan
www.DVcameraRigs.com

Matt Kelly · May 24th, 2005, 01:09 PM

Well i think the main nice thing about them is that by tilting the fluid head, you tilt the camera.

Chris Mah · May 25th, 2005, 12:14 AM

I have a Cobra Crane which I got years ago. It attaches to the tripod head via a quick release plate like the other cranes you mention. I have a Miller fluid head and would never consider putting it on there let alone a Vision 3. I use mine with a Manfrotto 501 head on a dedicated set of old heavy duty wooden legs.

There is a lot of stress put on the head. You can easily see this if you try to level the head when the fully assembled crane and camera are mounted. It actually takes two people to level the head this way, one to hold the crane and the other to manipulate the head.

As Dan says, you really want to keep your good tripod free. The only thing the head is used for is to tilt up and down and the 501 is fairly good at this. I don't think a Vision 3 will make that much of a difference in this regard but I've never used the crane for what I would call detailed moves. I also attach the camera to the crane with a quick release plate so that it comes off the crane and right onto my other tripod.

I only use my crane for stage performances or wide sweeping type shots so the benefit of a really smooth head isn't necessary for me. Still I would never risk a crane on an expensive tripod head.

Dan Selakovich · May 25th, 2005, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Kelly

Well i think the main nice thing about them is that by tilting the fluid head, you tilt the camera.

Huh? You lost me. Aren't we talking about attaching the crane to the fluid head, and not attaching the fluid head to the crane? Which brings up another excellent point. If your fluid head is holding the crane, you can't use it on the camera end of the crane!

Dan

Matt Kelly · May 25th, 2005, 01:20 PM

Right, i mean you could tilt the camera either way, but being able to tilt it from the fulcrum during a shot is what I think is cool. It's hard to put a camera in the air and control a fluid head that's also in the air.

But about using your fliud head at one end or the other, why's that an issue? Just get an extra head....you can get decent fluid heads for like $30 on ebay. Ones for smaller cameras aren't expensive at all.

Dan Selakovich · May 25th, 2005, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Kelly

Right, i mean you could tilt the camera either way, but being able to tilt it from the fulcrum during a shot is what I think is cool. It's hard to put a camera in the air and control a fluid head that's also in the air.

Well, that's just dangerous! Not a good idea.

Dan

Matt Kelly · May 25th, 2005, 02:41 PM

Dangerous? I mean it's not THAT heavy, and hopefully there are people spotting it. I've tilted a glidecam crane in the middle of a shot and it looked great. :P But that's much more heavy duty than these tiny quick release jibs. *shrug*

Chris Mah · May 26th, 2005, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Selakovich

Huh? You lost me. Aren't we talking about attaching the crane to the fluid head, and not attaching the fluid head to the crane? Which brings up another excellent point. If your fluid head is holding the crane, you can't use it on the camera end of the crane!

Dan

That's what I meant. I would never attach my crane to an expensive fluid head. I'd be worried that I'd damage it somehow by the extra stress that's placed on it. From what I can tell, most of the cranes that attach to a tripod head in this way, the weight is not centered over the head but it's hanging way off to the right so it kind of creates a torsion effect. That's why I use my 501 head. It's heavy duty enough to support the weight of my crane and smooth enough for tilts.

I have mounted a mini Manfrotto 128RC head on the camera end of the crane though. This gives a really smooth boom up and pan shot with the crane. This is not quite the same as swinging the crane to the left or right as that moves in kind of an arc.

David Lach · May 26th, 2005, 10:00 PM

Pretty much in agreement with what's been said here. I myself use an old Bogen 3036/3038 system with my crane. Would never even think about setting it up on my Vision 3.

The tripod and head are officially rated for 26lbs max load. I can assure you that with an XL2, the counter weights and the crane itself, it goes beyond that mark, probably more in the 30-35lbs range.

That's where Bogen's overengineering comes into play. This thing is built to last. I'm playing a bit with fire by putting that kind of load on this tripod, so I wouldn't recommend it unless you know what you're doing, but I've done extensive testing before doing so with even much heavier loads. Of course, I can kiss the pan head's smoothness goodby after that, but I took that into consideration. This tripod is exclusively used with the crane.

May 22nd, 2005, 12:12 PM	#1
Eugene Kim Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 166	Vision 3 for cranes? Would it be ok to use my Vinten Vision 3 head with those low-priced cranes/jibs out their that attach to the tripod, quick-release, mounting plate (i.e. the Studio One DV Jib Arm, the Kessler Crane, etc., etc.)? On one hand the Vinten can be counterbalanced up to 22lbs., and it is sooo smooth. I feel like it'd definitely give me the best results of pretty much any other head in this class with these low-priced cranes. But at the same time, I don't want to mess with it, because well it's somewhat precious and expensive in and of itself. I've been told that these cranes that attach to the quick release plates put a lot of stress on the head, and will wear them out prematurely. Is this so? (I ask, because others seem to use these things just fine.) Should I just forget about using my Vinten for such work? Thanks.

May 23rd, 2005, 08:15 AM	#2
Dan Selakovich Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 220	I never understood companies that designed cranes to rest on a fluid head. Even if it doesn't wear out your head, you can't set up another shot without taking down the crane. I like to have a tripod devoted to crane work and have my head and sticks on the ready for a 2nd camera or simply to save time, which is so fleeting on a set, to pick up non-crane shots. It's also very important to have the crane tripod level. What if your head isn't locked down properly, and the crane starts to drift? Things can get nasty in a hurry! Obviously, I'd never get a crane that attaches to a head, but I'm sure there are those that have had no problems at all. Dan www.DVcameraRigs.com

May 24th, 2005, 01:09 PM	#3
Matt Kelly New Boot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 9	Well i think the main nice thing about them is that by tilting the fluid head, you tilt the camera.

May 25th, 2005, 12:14 AM	#4
Chris Mah Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 34	I have a Cobra Crane which I got years ago. It attaches to the tripod head via a quick release plate like the other cranes you mention. I have a Miller fluid head and would never consider putting it on there let alone a Vision 3. I use mine with a Manfrotto 501 head on a dedicated set of old heavy duty wooden legs. There is a lot of stress put on the head. You can easily see this if you try to level the head when the fully assembled crane and camera are mounted. It actually takes two people to level the head this way, one to hold the crane and the other to manipulate the head. As Dan says, you really want to keep your good tripod free. The only thing the head is used for is to tilt up and down and the 501 is fairly good at this. I don't think a Vision 3 will make that much of a difference in this regard but I've never used the crane for what I would call detailed moves. I also attach the camera to the crane with a quick release plate so that it comes off the crane and right onto my other tripod. I only use my crane for stage performances or wide sweeping type shots so the benefit of a really smooth head isn't necessary for me. Still I would never risk a crane on an expensive tripod head.

May 25th, 2005, 01:20 PM	#6
Matt Kelly New Boot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 9	Right, i mean you could tilt the camera either way, but being able to tilt it from the fulcrum during a shot is what I think is cool. It's hard to put a camera in the air and control a fluid head that's also in the air. But about using your fliud head at one end or the other, why's that an issue? Just get an extra head....you can get decent fluid heads for like $30 on ebay. Ones for smaller cameras aren't expensive at all.

May 25th, 2005, 02:41 PM	#8
Matt Kelly New Boot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 9	Dangerous? I mean it's not THAT heavy, and hopefully there are people spotting it. I've tilted a glidecam crane in the middle of a shot and it looked great. :P But that's much more heavy duty than these tiny quick release jibs. shrug

May 26th, 2005, 10:00 PM	#10
David Lach Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Montreal, QC, Canada Posts: 570	Pretty much in agreement with what's been said here. I myself use an old Bogen 3036/3038 system with my crane. Would never even think about setting it up on my Vision 3. The tripod and head are officially rated for 26lbs max load. I can assure you that with an XL2, the counter weights and the crane itself, it goes beyond that mark, probably more in the 30-35lbs range. That's where Bogen's overengineering comes into play. This thing is built to last. I'm playing a bit with fire by putting that kind of load on this tripod, so I wouldn't recommend it unless you know what you're doing, but I've done extensive testing before doing so with even much heavier loads. Of course, I can kiss the pan head's smoothness goodby after that, but I took that into consideration. This tripod is exclusively used with the crane.