Studio ceiling advice?

[David Banner]

Hi. Making some progress. Have a question about ceiling if you don't mind.

Plan is still to build an inner studio "building" studio/stage space inside a PEMB outer building.

The inner studio will have it's own ceiling which I am planning on having on top of the trusses - reason is so I can "recess" the space lights up in the 2' - 6" space so they won't hang down as low, giving more clearance from floor to bottom of space light. Good idea?

I'm probably not going to be able to afford to make the entire building taller (it's already 22' high) so we are looking at 18' from the bottom of the grid to the floor. If the space lights are recessed between the trusses they will reduce the clear space some, but not a lot. However any lights attached to the grid will still hang and eat clearance per normal

[David Banner]

The inner "studio/stage" is about 38-40' wide. If I put it in the middle of the PEMB we can actually get a little more clear height. But only have a small storage space on each side.

But if I stick with 18' clear ceiling I can shift the studio/stage to one side or the other which will allow for a bigger side storage space which I think I need, or is it worth it to get a little extra height?

Thoughts?

[Paul R Johnson]

The lighting grid looks er, somewhat over the top? How big are those squares? Even in aluminium that is an awful lot of overhead load Ali is about 1.5Kg/m aand you have lots of it!

[David Banner]

Thank you Paul
The rough 3d pics are extremely crude. The grid were made approx 4' X 4' squares and bigger diameter than should be. The trusses are also not correct. But I figured it was easier to try to show my idea crudely with pics than to try to explain it in words. What I am trying to show is placement of space lights and placement of grid.

You bring up a great point I've been wondering - what kind of spacing is good for the real grid?

[Paul R Johnson]

Much depends on how you want to rig the lighting. If the grid is 18'/3m then assuming adjustable height supports like pantographs are out, you can do quite a bit with drop bars of the expensive and posh type or much cruder home made ones. The thing with 18 ft to the grid is that if you need a lower angle to an eye line, the light has to be further away, or mounted lower down. A few ali tubes of various lengths - 500mm, 1m 1500mm are useful - with a normal lighting clamp bolted to the top, and a right angle at the bottom lets you mount fixtures lower than the grid. A Zharges or A frame ladder would be common here for access. I've worked with grids of 1m squares and 2m ones too. The 1m grid gives you many more simple locations - 1m is often close enough to make the angles work. 2m, less so. The solution is a simple one. You can get small double ended clamps with a 90 degree bend. A few bits of tube, just over 2m then lets you put these across the 2m grid square and have a support in exactly the right place. If you do the maths for 2m spacing, you'll see it is a lot less weight to have up in the air, and the number of drop brackets and drop tubes won't be that many. These cross and drop accessories can be easily made yourself, as and when you start to need them. Very cheap too - the only downside is that to rig a fixture where you determine it MUST be, might take one cross tube and one drop tube - and two ladder moves to do. I reckon with a clear floor, that would easily be a five minute job, little more. You will spend more time with cables!

[David Banner]

Thanks again Paul.
Sounds like it's not a big deal to go wider and add as needed.
Just to clarify when you say 2M, do you mean the grid is 2 meters X 2 meters square? That's a big square. Or is it 2M across the square diagonally?

I read using aluminum pipe is not recommonded because clamps and attachments can cut into it. But steel would be a lot of weight it seems to me. Thoughts?

[Paul R Johnson]

I typed a reply yesterday but I've lost it.

The grid with 2m squares is going to weigh four times the load if the squares are 1m spaced. This is why 2m and lots of cross bars you can use if needed work well. The damage to thick wall ali tube is minimal from the old screw style lighting clamps where the screw bit directly into the tube, but thin walled truss suffered badly so most people fit the lighting kit with clamps that spread the load and don't damage it. You can get this with swivel joints so the cross tubes can run at an angle too.

I've been consulting on a big studio with a large floor area and limited budget and more importantly, load capacity, so what we are doing is running 2m bars longitudinally down the length and then attaching two chord truss between them where it's needed. Of course they will be put up, then left in place for the next project through the door. Eventually, they will run out of truss, so that is when empty ones will be moved. This will mean that trends for placement will be obvious. Going up an A-frame, Tallescope (my favourite) or a whizzy powered platform takes little longer to rig a cross tube than to simply hang one light, and run the cabling - that's often longer as a process than two clamps to pop a truss up.

Ali tube not used is a waste of money, time and roof load.Looking at your pictures - maybe just one direction of tube would work well - they could go along the support members, or at 90 degrees to them - with maybe a run all around for drapes/tracks. If in a year, you look up at a 1m square grid and don't see marks on 90% of it, you wasted lots of money!

[David Banner]

Thanks you again Paul.
Yes maybe running a partial grid is a good idea.
I'm seeing different specs for pipe. Is outside diameter 1.5 inch?
I'm looking at where to buy so I can determine cost for this part of project

[Paul R Johnson]

UK and Europe have two sizes - the most common used to be 48mm, but now 50mm tube for individual bars, and 2,3 and 4 chord truss is standard. I think the US is the same. In my studio, although I found some very cheap suppliers, shipping cost was prohibitive, so I found a local scaffolding firm and they supplied what I needed. Wall thickness is the key feature. I'd suggest you have a look at Global Truss - a worldwide standard product, and their 2 chord ladder truss could be very useful for you - light and very strong.

[David Banner]

Thanks again.
Here is an attempt at grid so as to not waste a lot of cost and weight covering everything, I laced 4X4 8X8 and 4X6 grid spacing over only parts of the studio.

The studio is an ~40'w X 25'deep inner building with it's own ceiling (ceiling and trusses not shown in pics)
One "wall" is a thick curtain(s). When I need to do bigger shoots, I open the curtain and it becomes a ~40'w X 50'deep space.
Thoughts?

[Paul R Johnson]

In the other place you asked about suppliers for the 18' drop fabric - I tried searching for pipe and drape suppliers in Arkansas (once I discovered AR wasn't short for Arizona - my geography is useless, but pipe and drape hire companies often sell surplus, and if one is near you may be willing to share their supplier if you need custom drops. We have a few in the UK, so there must be loads in the US.

[David Banner]

Thanks again, Paul. Yeah a lot of people think AR is for Arizona :) Looks like it would be.

I'm still looking into the curtain(s). I'm thinking of getting maybe 4(?) 18' tall ones for the studio soft "wall". That will allow us to pass through them easily when shooting in the small "mode" studio/stage.
. And then when we want to shoot in the big "mode" studio/stage open it up by pulling curtains around which will then become sound deadening side "walls" for the larger space (I think). Though there will be open space above them once they are pulled around. I put arrows showing the curtain path.
It's the only way I can figure to alllow for a larger shooting space short of actually building the inner building 40'X50' which will cost too much. Thankfully the lot I bought is in a pretty good location with some space around it.


Building the main outer building as four equal 25' sections makes it cheaper, and leaving the last bay empty as an open-end non-insulated covered parking/storage bay also saves cost and allows for future expansion and higher resale since the building is 100' long.
I have idea to leave 2nd floor as empty mezzanine for now to save cost and allow for future expansion.

[Paul R Johnson]

I think the ability to go through is important I find I do it all the time. If you have them made, consider Velcro sewn down the vertical edges. Helps no end in getting a gap free joint.

[David Banner]

Thanks again and another great idea you have.

I'm guessing black is the color I need for the large soft "wall" dividing curtains?

[Paul R Johnson]

I think so. Apart from keying, colours rarely work usefully. Velcro costs very little. They need to he, the edge anyway, so adding Velcro is not a huge extra cost. I wish were in the same country, I’d love to visit the space when you’re done. It’s a great project, I’m rather envious of.