Studio with 45deg sloping ceilings? at DVinfo.net

Paul Gale · September 11th, 2007, 04:06 AM

I'm converting a largish attic into an office and will be editing video in there too. I was wondering what the acoustics might be like - OK or very bad?

The ridge height is 3m and the walls/ceilings are 45 degrees. Roof is very well insulated and finished with a plasterboard (sheet rock) layer. There's also a lot of glass surface in the form of roof lights and a glazed screen across one of the gable ends approx 5m behind the monitoring position..

What would this do the the accoustics - especially if I wanted to monitor in 5.1/7.1?

Any recommendations as to speaker placement in this kind of room?

Thanks.

Dave Robinson · September 11th, 2007, 04:46 AM

Most acoustic problems come from walls that are parallel to one another. This causes standing waves. If you get the chance look at images of professional recording studio control rooms. They normally very irregular shapes, this reduces the chances of standing waves.

The only things you might notice are bass traps in the corners of the room, but you can buy acoustic products that can reduce the effects of these bass traps.

Remember to place your speakers atleast 2-3 feet apart and a good practice is to pin a cushion to the wall behind the speakers, right in between them. I've used this and instantly noticed tighter bass and a clearer mid section. This only really applies to stereo setups, I've never used 5.1 or 7.1 so couldn't really help there.

Look at control room design for more hints, tips n tricks.

Paul Gale · September 11th, 2007, 05:04 AM

Thnaks Dave - have you heard anyone using this kind of room shape before?

Ty Ford · September 11th, 2007, 06:25 AM

Not necessarily a problem.

Have fun with it.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Dave Robinson · September 11th, 2007, 07:29 AM

To be honest yes. A lot of "professional" recording studios I've been in have been converted barns, or old building, usually with the live room downstairs in the main floor space and the control room in the ceiling space.

What you should do is search on google for information regarding early reflections, standing waves and general acoustic room design.

You may find a lot of info telling to try and get as dead a space as possible. This means reducing the rooms natural reverb to a minimum. I personally don't like this as you tend to over compensate and make everything sound like it was recorded in a cave. Just try and create the most neutral sound possible. Not too live, not too dead, avoid bass traps, standing waves won't be a problem due to the nature of the walls relationships with each other.

To deaden a room you can do things like hang heavy curtains around. To liven a room up put large glass framed pictures or mirrors in there.

One cheap way of sorting out boomy bass trap corners is to get a bucket of sand (bear with me) and stick a 4 " - 6 " diamter piece of pipe in it sticking up like a tree. About 3' tall is usually good, but remember only do it if you need to.

Andrew Plumb · September 11th, 2007, 08:24 AM

If you're going to DIY, I highly recommend picking up a copy of Rod Gervais' "Home Recording Studio: Build It like the Pros", ISBN 1598630342.

Also check out several of the more audio-centric forums out there, a few of which Rod participates in:

- Recording Studio Design Forum
- Acoustics Forum
- RECORDING Forums

Aside: I went the basement isolation booth route. It's functional, but life has a tendency to get in the way of my getting the thing more complete. It's certainly a lot more quiet and controlled a space to play in than anywhere else in the house now. :-)

Paul Gale · September 11th, 2007, 08:30 AM

Thanks for the replies and info guys :)

John Miller · September 11th, 2007, 09:44 AM

I have an office/video editing suite/guitar playing room just like you describe above a barn/garage. The acoustics are great - no echoes, no resonance - even with the bare drywall/sheetrock.

Paul Gale · September 11th, 2007, 10:02 AM

Ah good - sounds like it might be very good then - exciting times ahead :)

Dan Brockett · September 11th, 2007, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Gale

Ah good - sounds like it might be very good then - exciting times ahead :)

Hi Paul:

I highly recommend checking this out too!
http://www.acoustics101.com/
http://www.auralexuniversity.com

Dan

Jimmy Tuffrey · September 15th, 2007, 10:05 AM

I've acheived great results with Tesco 'Value' duvets and a staple gun. My attic has some angled ceilings but it also has parrallel walls and initially had a very pronounced flutter echo.
I put five shelves up at ear height to deal with that. Two on either side and one behind the mix position. Was an immediate improvement before I even put anything on them.

If you find your space is too live then what I have done is to put a double duvet above my desk on the ceiling where the angled upper half of wall meets the ceiling and then another behind me creating an arc from 5 foot high up one angled front wall, over the ceiling and down to about 5 foot height on the back wall. ( Finishing about two foot above the rear wall shelf.

I then aded two more. One on either side of the front wall which wrapped around to cover the side wall by two feet on either side of the speakers.

I gradually did this buying the duvets over tree trips and each time I noticed a distict improvement in the sense of clarity. The sound comes from the speakers far clearer and with less 'mush'.

With these experiments there is always a real danger of over doing it though and getting that boxey sound of a room with no top end sparkle. Duvets only really stop the 'splashey' top end. For me it has been a very good experiment as my room needed it. I can now monitor far louder with out fatigue. Also the drum kit sounds softer. The room dose not ring anymore.

To mount the duvets I used a staple gun. Great and it leaves no noticeable holes. I know because I have to keep getting one down when my son stays.

Here in UK these duvets where only £12 for 12tog.

As mentioned earlier the classic first place to put absorbent material is between the monitors on the fron wall. My reason for not doing this is that I have a small dorma protruding infront of my mix position and behing my screen which has a thick curtain.

The sound on sound website is full of discussions about such things. Worth checking if you haven't already.

Paul Gale · September 15th, 2007, 01:17 PM

Thanks Jimmy, interesting stuff.

Not sure I can do too much though as I've spent a fortune on the conversion and finish - would be a shame to spoil that ;) I'll just have to see how it sounds....

Cheers,

Paul.

Michael Van Osterhoudt · September 15th, 2007, 02:19 PM

I've also been converting a room to audio and have found good info at
acoustalsurfaces.com

The BAC Echo Eliminators are made from recycled cotton, a cooler product than fiberglass absorbtion materials IMO, should you choose to lay up some wall panels.

September 11th, 2007, 04:06 AM	#1
Paul Gale Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Oxfordshire, UK Posts: 425	Studio with 45deg sloping ceilings? I'm converting a largish attic into an office and will be editing video in there too. I was wondering what the acoustics might be like - OK or very bad? The ridge height is 3m and the walls/ceilings are 45 degrees. Roof is very well insulated and finished with a plasterboard (sheet rock) layer. There's also a lot of glass surface in the form of roof lights and a glazed screen across one of the gable ends approx 5m behind the monitoring position.. What would this do the the accoustics - especially if I wanted to monitor in 5.1/7.1? Any recommendations as to speaker placement in this kind of room? Thanks.

September 11th, 2007, 06:25 AM	#4
Ty Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 2,337	Not necessarily a problem. Have fun with it. Regards, Ty Ford __________________ Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide Ty Ford's Audio Video Blog

September 11th, 2007, 08:24 AM	#6
Andrew Plumb Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 94	If you're going to DIY, I highly recommend picking up a copy of Rod Gervais' "Home Recording Studio: Build It like the Pros", ISBN 1598630342. Also check out several of the more audio-centric forums out there, a few of which Rod participates in: - Recording Studio Design Forum - Acoustics Forum - RECORDING Forums Aside: I went the basement isolation booth route. It's functional, but life has a tendency to get in the way of my getting the thing more complete. It's certainly a lot more quiet and controlled a space to play in than anywhere else in the house now. :-) __________________ "The future is already here. It's just not very evenly distributed." - William Gibson Last edited by Andrew Plumb; September 11th, 2007 at 10:13 AM. Reason: quite=quiet

September 11th, 2007, 04:46 AM	#2
Dave Robinson Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Conwy, Wales Posts: 208	Most acoustic problems come from walls that are parallel to one another. This causes standing waves. If you get the chance look at images of professional recording studio control rooms. They normally very irregular shapes, this reduces the chances of standing waves. The only things you might notice are bass traps in the corners of the room, but you can buy acoustic products that can reduce the effects of these bass traps. Remember to place your speakers atleast 2-3 feet apart and a good practice is to pin a cushion to the wall behind the speakers, right in between them. I've used this and instantly noticed tighter bass and a clearer mid section. This only really applies to stereo setups, I've never used 5.1 or 7.1 so couldn't really help there. Look at control room design for more hints, tips n tricks.

September 11th, 2007, 05:04 AM	#3
Paul Gale Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Oxfordshire, UK Posts: 425	Thnaks Dave - have you heard anyone using this kind of room shape before?

September 11th, 2007, 07:29 AM	#5
Dave Robinson Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Conwy, Wales Posts: 208	To be honest yes. A lot of "professional" recording studios I've been in have been converted barns, or old building, usually with the live room downstairs in the main floor space and the control room in the ceiling space. What you should do is search on google for information regarding early reflections, standing waves and general acoustic room design. You may find a lot of info telling to try and get as dead a space as possible. This means reducing the rooms natural reverb to a minimum. I personally don't like this as you tend to over compensate and make everything sound like it was recorded in a cave. Just try and create the most neutral sound possible. Not too live, not too dead, avoid bass traps, standing waves won't be a problem due to the nature of the walls relationships with each other. To deaden a room you can do things like hang heavy curtains around. To liven a room up put large glass framed pictures or mirrors in there. One cheap way of sorting out boomy bass trap corners is to get a bucket of sand (bear with me) and stick a 4 " - 6 " diamter piece of pipe in it sticking up like a tree. About 3' tall is usually good, but remember only do it if you need to.

September 11th, 2007, 08:30 AM	#7
Paul Gale Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Oxfordshire, UK Posts: 425	Thanks for the replies and info guys :)

September 11th, 2007, 09:44 AM	#8
John Miller Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hillsborough, NC, USA Posts: 968	I have an office/video editing suite/guitar playing room just like you describe above a barn/garage. The acoustics are great - no echoes, no resonance - even with the bare drywall/sheetrock.

September 11th, 2007, 10:02 AM	#9
Paul Gale Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Oxfordshire, UK Posts: 425	Ah good - sounds like it might be very good then - exciting times ahead :)

September 15th, 2007, 10:05 AM	#11
Jimmy Tuffrey Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bristol U.K. Posts: 244	I've acheived great results with Tesco 'Value' duvets and a staple gun. My attic has some angled ceilings but it also has parrallel walls and initially had a very pronounced flutter echo. I put five shelves up at ear height to deal with that. Two on either side and one behind the mix position. Was an immediate improvement before I even put anything on them. If you find your space is too live then what I have done is to put a double duvet above my desk on the ceiling where the angled upper half of wall meets the ceiling and then another behind me creating an arc from 5 foot high up one angled front wall, over the ceiling and down to about 5 foot height on the back wall. ( Finishing about two foot above the rear wall shelf. I then aded two more. One on either side of the front wall which wrapped around to cover the side wall by two feet on either side of the speakers. I gradually did this buying the duvets over tree trips and each time I noticed a distict improvement in the sense of clarity. The sound comes from the speakers far clearer and with less 'mush'. With these experiments there is always a real danger of over doing it though and getting that boxey sound of a room with no top end sparkle. Duvets only really stop the 'splashey' top end. For me it has been a very good experiment as my room needed it. I can now monitor far louder with out fatigue. Also the drum kit sounds softer. The room dose not ring anymore. To mount the duvets I used a staple gun. Great and it leaves no noticeable holes. I know because I have to keep getting one down when my son stays. Here in UK these duvets where only £12 for 12tog. As mentioned earlier the classic first place to put absorbent material is between the monitors on the fron wall. My reason for not doing this is that I have a small dorma protruding infront of my mix position and behing my screen which has a thick curtain. The sound on sound website is full of discussions about such things. Worth checking if you haven't already.

September 15th, 2007, 01:17 PM	#12
Paul Gale Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Oxfordshire, UK Posts: 425	Thanks Jimmy, interesting stuff. Not sure I can do too much though as I've spent a fortune on the conversion and finish - would be a shame to spoil that ;) I'll just have to see how it sounds.... Cheers, Paul.

September 15th, 2007, 02:19 PM	#13
Michael Van Osterhoudt New Boot Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Carpinteria, California Posts: 7	I've also been converting a room to audio and have found good info at acoustalsurfaces.com The BAC Echo Eliminators are made from recycled cotton, a cooler product than fiberglass absorbtion materials IMO, should you choose to lay up some wall panels.