Bottom Line Best Editing System for HDV/HD at DVinfo.net

Anthony Marotti · July 15th, 2007, 07:34 AM

Hello All,

I posted a message earlier asking about PPro2 and HDV/HD because I've been using it a long time, but maybe there's a better way, so....

What do you guys think is the all-around winner for capturing and editing HDV/HD content... both with, and without hardware, or a combination of the two?

Thanks in advance !!

AM

Greg Hartzell · July 15th, 2007, 08:43 AM

What camera/format are you using?

Anthony Marotti · July 15th, 2007, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Hartzell

What camera/format are you using?

Hi Gregg,

I use footage from all kinds of cameras. I can't edit all of them myself though :-(

I am getting a new camera but am unsure of which one. I posted another thread asking for advice on that, although I am leaning toward a Canon XL H1, or I might get into the Sony XDCAM, or a Panasonic P2, but I am not sure at this point.

I have 3 HD shooters, 4 or more HDV shooters, and a multitude of DV shooters from DVCPro50/25, DVCAM, and MiniDV.

So I am looking to capitalize on a platform that can accommodate all of those.

Any thoughts?

Thanks :-)

Glenn Chan · July 15th, 2007, 08:27 PM

You may want to be a bit more specific as to your specific needs and budget.

Are you doing very simple editing or do you need to incorporate a lot of graphics, audio editing, etc.?
Do you need a platform that you can get good freelancers for?
etc.

Anthony Marotti · July 16th, 2007, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn Chan

You may want to be a bit more specific as to your specific needs and budget.

Are you doing very simple editing or do you need to incorporate a lot of graphics, audio editing, etc.?
Do you need a platform that you can get good freelancers for?
etc.

All of the above. I work with a lot of contractors with a lot of different equipment, so I need the most versatile platform/system possible within a reasonable budget of around $10K... or less vis a vis AXIO.

The new AVID Composer using MOJO looks interesting....

I use a lot of graphics and 3D at times (3D Studio, and After Effects) and at other times not. I am producing a documentary right now for broadcast, I do TV Commercials, corporate work and stuff geared for the internet. So I would need a system that could do the most demanding of my work. I use the Adobe suite now, and am happy with it as far as its integration, but is there something better for my purpose?

Thanks!

Glenn Chan · July 16th, 2007, 12:36 PM

It might make sense to get some Mac Pros with FCS2 on it just because you can find a lot of people who know Final Cut. You can also boot Windows on them to install other editing software if need be.

Generally speaking, moving projects from one application to another generally does not work that well. The wrapper may not be supported (Quicktime, AVI, MXF), the essence/codec may not be supported (e.g. many Quicktime codecs don't work on PC), and there may not be a way of getting your cuts over (EDL, AAF, XML, OMF may not work). So sometimes it's just easiest to have whatever NLE they have.

Anthony Marotti · July 16th, 2007, 10:11 PM

Hello Glenn,

I am impressed with the way FCS2 is accepted and being used widely in Hollywood. I am also impressed with the new software only AVID Composer, which is great for its upward and downward compatibility with the rest of the
avid family. And whereas I don't think that out of the wrapper AVID Composer has a thing on PPro, or even close to the Adobe CS3 Suite, it is still the standard.

I might just stick with a PPro based system and add some I/O options like BlackMagic, AJA or the really cool V3HD (V3HD.com) and farm my AVID work out... but it would be nice not to have to rely on an outsource to make minor changes and revisions...

So I'm torn :-(

That's why your guys opinions are so important :-)

Glenn Chan · July 17th, 2007, 12:03 PM

Quote:

I am impressed with the way FCS2 is accepted and being used widely in Hollywood.

That might be marketing hype more than anything... I believe the majority of Hollywood films are still being edited on Avid. Anyways, it's likely a moot point since they have different needs that you (cut lists, workgroup editing).

As far as Avid goes, I'm guessing their butt is being kicked on the lower-budget end of things. You'd likely be able to find more FCP-proficient editors than Avid editors.

2- I haven't used Premiere Pro and Avid Media Composer enough to tell you much about them. I didn't really like either, but that's possibly because I don't know how to use those programs.

Anthony Marotti · July 17th, 2007, 04:32 PM

Hello Glenn,

I have been using Premiere for a long time and I am very impressed with it. I only hope that the integration with already accepted tools like after effects will allow it to become adopted more in the editing world so that more people train on it and use it in the real world.

I put it through it's paces and as long as I'm not running any low end acceleration boards like Canopus or Matrox, it is as stable as can be.

I am looking for something to add to it to make it more heavy duty and versatile like AXIO, Black Magic, AJA, or the new V3HD....

But I am looking for a second system as well... maybe FCP is a good choice??

Eric Lagerlof · July 18th, 2007, 09:57 PM

I use both. Primarily a PPro editor, for many years, I've recently tackled the FCP suite as well. Being in the SF Bay area, FCP has become the 'thing'. So if I want freelance jobs, I've needed to learn it.

At this point, I still like the Adobe Suite better, but FCP has some nice points as well. At the Pro level, and pushing aside the hype, it really comes down to you and your working style. That means taking enough time to learn the app well, the way a pro would. I will say that PPro and FCP both seem to be more flexible, Avid seems to more focused on first rough cut, then trim, etc.

But they're all very capable apps. I'm not sure why you are fishing. As far as being format friendly, they all work hard at trying to keep up, one occasionally leap-frogging the other. But in the end, our opinions don't really mean much, it's more about you and how you are with the software.

Anthony Marotti · July 19th, 2007, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Lagerlof

I use both. Primarily a PPro editor, for many years, I've recently tackled the FCP suite as well. Being in the SF Bay area, FCP has become the 'thing'. So if I want freelance jobs, I've needed to learn it.

At this point, I still like the Adobe Suite better, but FCP has some nice points as well. At the Pro level, and pushing aside the hype, it really comes down to you and your working style. That means taking enough time to learn the app well, the way a pro would. I will say that PPro and FCP both seem to be more flexible, Avid seems to more focused on first rough cut, then trim, etc.

But they're all very capable apps. I'm not sure why you are fishing. As far as being format friendly, they all work hard at trying to keep up, one occasionally leap-frogging the other. But in the end, our opinions don't really mean much, it's more about you and how you are with the software.

Hello Eric, thanks for the feedback!

I hear you, I really like PPro and see it improving all of the time. My concern is compatibility with others, and perception. I do all commercial and industrial work, and am doing more medium and long format broadcast stuff. I have to move with the industry's perception.

I shouldn't be editing at all, and although I love it, will be doing very little in the near future. But I believe in being a knowledgeable leader and as a director I need to be able to communicate with my editor.

I am looking for the right combination so that I don't prejudice my editors and can stay in favor of my clients. That is the only reason that I would ever consider AVID.

I will probably add FCP workstations and add some kind of hardware that works with PPro to give me the I/O and multiple format (mixed on the timeline) capability that I need.

I would like feedback on what would be the most versatile hardware for that purpose. I have looked at AXIO, BlackMagic, AJA, and the new V3HD, which looks really cool. Unfortunately I don't have any experience with any of them and I would like to avoid any costly mistakes that I would have to live with :-(

Any input on hardware?

Thanks Again !!

July 15th, 2007, 07:34 AM	#1
Anthony Marotti Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 263	Bottom Line Best Editing System for HDV/HD Hello All, I posted a message earlier asking about PPro2 and HDV/HD because I've been using it a long time, but maybe there's a better way, so.... What do you guys think is the all-around winner for capturing and editing HDV/HD content... both with, and without hardware, or a combination of the two? Thanks in advance !! AM __________________ AM

July 16th, 2007, 10:11 PM	#7
Anthony Marotti Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 263	Hello Glenn, I am impressed with the way FCS2 is accepted and being used widely in Hollywood. I am also impressed with the new software only AVID Composer, which is great for its upward and downward compatibility with the rest of the avid family. And whereas I don't think that out of the wrapper AVID Composer has a thing on PPro, or even close to the Adobe CS3 Suite, it is still the standard. I might just stick with a PPro based system and add some I/O options like BlackMagic, AJA or the really cool V3HD (V3HD.com) and farm my AVID work out... but it would be nice not to have to rely on an outsource to make minor changes and revisions... So I'm torn :-( That's why your guys opinions are so important :-) __________________ AM

July 17th, 2007, 04:32 PM	#9
Anthony Marotti Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 263	Hello Glenn, I have been using Premiere for a long time and I am very impressed with it. I only hope that the integration with already accepted tools like after effects will allow it to become adopted more in the editing world so that more people train on it and use it in the real world. I put it through it's paces and as long as I'm not running any low end acceleration boards like Canopus or Matrox, it is as stable as can be. I am looking for something to add to it to make it more heavy duty and versatile like AXIO, Black Magic, AJA, or the new V3HD.... But I am looking for a second system as well... maybe FCP is a good choice?? __________________ AM

July 15th, 2007, 08:43 AM	#2
Greg Hartzell Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Columbia, CT Posts: 168	What camera/format are you using?

July 15th, 2007, 08:27 PM	#4
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	You may want to be a bit more specific as to your specific needs and budget. Are you doing very simple editing or do you need to incorporate a lot of graphics, audio editing, etc.? Do you need a platform that you can get good freelancers for? etc.

July 16th, 2007, 12:36 PM	#6
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	It might make sense to get some Mac Pros with FCS2 on it just because you can find a lot of people who know Final Cut. You can also boot Windows on them to install other editing software if need be. Generally speaking, moving projects from one application to another generally does not work that well. The wrapper may not be supported (Quicktime, AVI, MXF), the essence/codec may not be supported (e.g. many Quicktime codecs don't work on PC), and there may not be a way of getting your cuts over (EDL, AAF, XML, OMF may not work). So sometimes it's just easiest to have whatever NLE they have.

July 18th, 2007, 09:57 PM	#10
Eric Lagerlof Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Pacifica, CA Posts: 348	I use both. Primarily a PPro editor, for many years, I've recently tackled the FCP suite as well. Being in the SF Bay area, FCP has become the 'thing'. So if I want freelance jobs, I've needed to learn it. At this point, I still like the Adobe Suite better, but FCP has some nice points as well. At the Pro level, and pushing aside the hype, it really comes down to you and your working style. That means taking enough time to learn the app well, the way a pro would. I will say that PPro and FCP both seem to be more flexible, Avid seems to more focused on first rough cut, then trim, etc. But they're all very capable apps. I'm not sure why you are fishing. As far as being format friendly, they all work hard at trying to keep up, one occasionally leap-frogging the other. But in the end, our opinions don't really mean much, it's more about you and how you are with the software.