Whats the deal with HDV? at DVinfo.net

Jack Jenkins · January 15th, 2007, 12:49 PM

Ok this most likely has been discussed but I have searched and cannot find this info. I have much experience with DV but am wondering about HDV. Please excuse the newbiness of the questions.

My Questions are:

1. Is HDV its own codec like DV?

2. When you capture HDV from the camera what does it come in as? (codec wise?)

3. When I am gonna export from NLE can I export back into HDV?

4. If I cant go back into HDV codec what is an equivalent HDV, or is there one?

Bart Walczak · January 16th, 2007, 03:48 AM

1. HDV natively is MPEG-2 compressed stream, with GOPs varying depending on the camera producer.

2. M2T - MPEG-2 compressed stream.

3. Yes. But other than for tape backup, there is no point. There are other more robust and less damaging compressed formats.

Jack Zhang · January 16th, 2007, 04:10 AM

4. Blu-ray encoded in MPEG-2 or XDCAM HD would do.

David Andrews · January 16th, 2007, 11:49 AM

Be aware that there are differences between the HDV codecs from JVC, Sony and Canon - they are not identical. You need to ensure that your nle can handle your chosen version.

In Edius you can capture in the HDV codec of your choice, but it is awkward to edit (because of the GoPs), or you can capture using the Canopus HQ codec, which captures frame by frame, and enables easier editing. You need a powerful pc to do this. You can export back to hdv. Some versions of Edius come with Speed Encoder which can save significant encoding time with a powerful pc. More information here:
http://www.canopus.com/home.php

Jack Jenkins · January 17th, 2007, 12:58 AM

Thanks for the answers guys.

On question #3 I guess my wonder is that when I am capturing the HDV footage it is coming in as "something" codec, but when I go to export why cant I just export back into that same "something" codec? I am using premiere pro 2 and I just assumed that there would be some default HDV codec to go back out to.
The HDV is obviously being decompressed I would think you could recompress it back in the same way (as DV does)

Anyway so question #4 is still up in the air? (BLURAY etc. or XDCAM for presentation is great, but I just want an interim storage format of edited material without degradation, cant go back to tape cuz it doesnt allow 24p, also a pain even if I could)
Bart what is an example of a more robust less damaging codec?
I just want to be able to export out to something that will look exactly the same as the stuff I am seeing in the timeline. (like good ole DV)

thanks in advance

Ken Hodson · January 17th, 2007, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Zhang

4. Blu-ray encoded in MPEG-2 or XDCAM HD would do.

What about HD-DVD encoded in MPEG-2?

Steven Gotz · January 17th, 2007, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Jenkins

On question #3 I guess my wonder is that when I am capturing the HDV footage it is coming in as "something" codec, but when I go to export why cant I just export back into that same "something" codec? I am using premiere pro 2 and I just assumed that there would be some default HDV codec to go back out to. The HDV is obviously being decompressed I would think you could recompress it back in the same way (as DV does)

The problem is that HDV is MPEG2 and not all of the data necessary to view a single frame is contained in that frame. So Premiere Pro has to do some serious work to present it to you. The "expansion" of the data then requires an extensive recompression to go back to tape. Or, to a HDV file of some sort.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Jenkins

I just want to be able to export out to something that will look exactly the same as the stuff I am seeing in the timeline. (like good ole DV)

Ain't gonna happen any time soon. The closest you can get to lossless is using a good intermediate code like Cineform.

HDV is a workaround designed to let people shoot HD frame sizes who would not otherwise be able to afford "real" HD in the form of a $100,000 camera. As with many workarounds, there are limitations and issues that make it less than ideal.

I use Cineform Aspect HD with Premiere Pro 2.0 and I can import and export the footage with minor changes and recompression quite a few times before I see degradation. It is not as perfect as taking the same DV file in and out over and over again. But it is fine for my workflow.

Jack Jenkins · January 21st, 2007, 09:56 AM

Thanks for the info. Embarrasingly, I just found the adobe media encoder in PP2 (I kept thinking it was exclusively for DVD export). Adobe doenst even mention this exporter in its PP2 "export" help section. Anyway, the media encoder looks like it will do the trick. Might be nice to hear other peoples favorite settings that have worked well for them though.

January 15th, 2007, 12:49 PM	#1
Jack Jenkins Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 122	Whats the deal with HDV? Ok this most likely has been discussed but I have searched and cannot find this info. I have much experience with DV but am wondering about HDV. Please excuse the newbiness of the questions. My Questions are: 1. Is HDV its own codec like DV? 2. When you capture HDV from the camera what does it come in as? (codec wise?) 3. When I am gonna export from NLE can I export back into HDV? 4. If I cant go back into HDV codec what is an equivalent HDV, or is there one?

January 16th, 2007, 03:48 AM	#2
Bart Walczak Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Warsaw/Poland Posts: 716	1. HDV natively is MPEG-2 compressed stream, with GOPs varying depending on the camera producer. 2. M2T - MPEG-2 compressed stream. 3. Yes. But other than for tape backup, there is no point. There are other more robust and less damaging compressed formats.

January 16th, 2007, 04:10 AM	#3
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	4. Blu-ray encoded in MPEG-2 or XDCAM HD would do.

January 16th, 2007, 11:49 AM	#4
David Andrews Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 131	Be aware that there are differences between the HDV codecs from JVC, Sony and Canon - they are not identical. You need to ensure that your nle can handle your chosen version. In Edius you can capture in the HDV codec of your choice, but it is awkward to edit (because of the GoPs), or you can capture using the Canopus HQ codec, which captures frame by frame, and enables easier editing. You need a powerful pc to do this. You can export back to hdv. Some versions of Edius come with Speed Encoder which can save significant encoding time with a powerful pc. More information here: http://www.canopus.com/home.php

January 17th, 2007, 12:58 AM	#5
Jack Jenkins Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 122	Thanks for the answers guys. On question #3 I guess my wonder is that when I am capturing the HDV footage it is coming in as "something" codec, but when I go to export why cant I just export back into that same "something" codec? I am using premiere pro 2 and I just assumed that there would be some default HDV codec to go back out to. The HDV is obviously being decompressed I would think you could recompress it back in the same way (as DV does) Anyway so question #4 is still up in the air? (BLURAY etc. or XDCAM for presentation is great, but I just want an interim storage format of edited material without degradation, cant go back to tape cuz it doesnt allow 24p, also a pain even if I could) Bart what is an example of a more robust less damaging codec? I just want to be able to export out to something that will look exactly the same as the stuff I am seeing in the timeline. (like good ole DV) thanks in advance

January 21st, 2007, 09:56 AM	#8
Jack Jenkins Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 122	Thanks for the info. Embarrasingly, I just found the adobe media encoder in PP2 (I kept thinking it was exclusively for DVD export). Adobe doenst even mention this exporter in its PP2 "export" help section. Anyway, the media encoder looks like it will do the trick. Might be nice to hear other peoples favorite settings that have worked well for them though.