Cineframe24 Looks good Useable or not? at DVinfo.net

Steven Houser · December 20th, 2006, 09:23 PM

Hello, I did some tests and I love the way the Cineframe24 looks!
I read 1 article saying that it cannot be used for a film transfer ,so it was no good in the long run! Is that true?
Im currently trying to get a good workflow for this Indi Film I am doing!
I am using HDR-fx1 captured to V7 then Dvfilm 60i to 24p so I can edit 24p,but Dvfilm is So SLOW it is killing me wish that I could skip the Dvfilm part ,I like the way the Cineframe24 looks can I use this setting at all? Need help from someone who knows!

Here is a WMV clipd 1440x1080 with cineframe24

http://www.mediamax.com/steve_houser/Hosted/1.wmv

Nate Fields · December 21st, 2006, 12:28 AM

looks good steve who was filmin

Phil Bloom · December 21st, 2006, 03:48 AM

if you want it to go to film then the frame rate needs to match.
cineframe 24 just gives you the LOOK of the movement by halving the resolution. it is still essentially interlaced footage.

Zulkifli Yusof · December 21st, 2006, 04:01 AM

Yea Steve, Phil got it. Since you're using DVFilm, I'm sure you would've read their specifications for film out. They did recommend against cineframe24 for film out.

Steven Houser · December 21st, 2006, 10:26 AM

These were the answers I needed to here again! Its just that the cineframe24 looks so much more like film to me than Dvfilm final 24p and the time it takes!

So im guessing that I cant use cineframe24 and Dvfilm 60i to 24p to ensure that Film look?

Robert Kirkpatrick · December 22nd, 2006, 02:44 PM

Steven,

I don't know if this would help, but I find that using Connect HD with Vegas 7 is the best way to work with the FX1's Cineframe24. It removes the funky parts. I tested straight Cineframe 24 on the Vegas timeline against Cineframe24 (imported with Connect HD) and the Connect HD avi was so much better. Much cleaner footage.

Like you, I hate added render times, so for my smaller short film projects I'm willing to lose some resolution (due to the Cineframe24) and use Connect HD to get a better 24 frame look. If you use DVFilm, I recommend you always shoot in 60i with the FX1, and deinterlace with DVFilm from there.

Steven Houser · December 22nd, 2006, 03:18 PM

Does any one Know the Exact amount of Lost resolution lost by using cineframe24?
Under my name there is a link to full resolution shot with cineframe24 ,in the properties of that clip shows no loss of res still 1440x1080 and in the picture cannot see any loss! So what i am asking for is there any Known FACT chart showing that it looses resolution by how much or are we guestimating it does?

Any Factual Link would be very helpful to me and others that like the cineframe24 look....

Thx to all the Pro,s that Knows!

Robert Kirkpatrick · December 23rd, 2006, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Houser

Any Factual Link would be very helpful to me and others that like the cineframe24 look....

Don't know if I can give you the answer to that, but these are the links I've used.

http://www.cineform.com/products/Son.../CineFrame.htm
http://www.adamwilt.com/HDV/cineframe.html
http://www.sundancemediagroup.com/tr...24_cadence.htm
http://www.dvfilm.com/fx1/index.htm

In fact, this VASST site was very helpful for me when I switched over to working with HDV:
http://www.vasst.com/?v=HDV/hdvportalnew.htm

In my rush of typing, I think I said loss of resolution, when I should have specified that some have said that the Cineframe24 loses vertical sharpness. Some people have said that it's better to use DVfilm (converting 60i to 24p) over Cineframe Connect HD (converting Cineframe24 to 24) -- but I haven't done any tests on that to see which I liked better. I like the Connect HD workflow though.

Hope that helps.

Steven Houser · December 23rd, 2006, 11:30 AM

Great Links Thx Robert!
I actualy know the the Facts With Dvfilm FilmHouse..For Transfer to 35mm Film or 70mm Film:
NO CINEFRAME24 No CF24 CF30!!!

It just Looks so dam good! But will not be Transferable In the Correct way!
I will Have to gain That Film Look by other Means Lighting DOF and CC!
Thats all I have Left!
Thx for replying again Robert! Happy Holidays!

December 20th, 2006, 09:23 PM	#1
Steven Houser Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Castle IN. Posts: 178	FX1 Cineframe24 Looks good Useable or not? Hello, I did some tests and I love the way the Cineframe24 looks! I read 1 article saying that it cannot be used for a film transfer ,so it was no good in the long run! Is that true? Im currently trying to get a good workflow for this Indi Film I am doing! I am using HDR-fx1 captured to V7 then Dvfilm 60i to 24p so I can edit 24p,but Dvfilm is So SLOW it is killing me wish that I could skip the Dvfilm part ,I like the way the Cineframe24 looks can I use this setting at all? Need help from someone who knows! Here is a WMV clipd 1440x1080 with cineframe24 http://www.mediamax.com/steve_houser/Hosted/1.wmv __________________ Steven Lee Houser http://vimeo.com/testwork Last edited by Steven Houser; December 20th, 2006 at 10:09 PM.

December 21st, 2006, 03:48 AM	#3
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	if you want it to go to film then the frame rate needs to match. cineframe 24 just gives you the LOOK of the movement by halving the resolution. it is still essentially interlaced footage. __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

December 21st, 2006, 10:26 AM	#5
Steven Houser Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Castle IN. Posts: 178	Yea I know! These were the answers I needed to here again! Its just that the cineframe24 looks so much more like film to me than Dvfilm final 24p and the time it takes! So im guessing that I cant use cineframe24 and Dvfilm 60i to 24p to ensure that Film look? __________________ Steven Lee Houser http://vimeo.com/testwork

December 22nd, 2006, 03:18 PM	#7
Steven Houser Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Castle IN. Posts: 178	What is the Exact resolution Loss? Does any one Know the Exact amount of Lost resolution lost by using cineframe24? Under my name there is a link to full resolution shot with cineframe24 ,in the properties of that clip shows no loss of res still 1440x1080 and in the picture cannot see any loss! So what i am asking for is there any Known FACT chart showing that it looses resolution by how much or are we guestimating it does? Any Factual Link would be very helpful to me and others that like the cineframe24 look.... Thx to all the Pro,s that Knows! __________________ Steven Lee Houser http://vimeo.com/testwork

December 23rd, 2006, 11:30 AM	#9
Steven Houser Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Castle IN. Posts: 178	Great Links Thx Robert! I actualy know the the Facts With Dvfilm FilmHouse..For Transfer to 35mm Film or 70mm Film: NO CINEFRAME24 No CF24 CF30!!! It just Looks so dam good! But will not be Transferable In the Correct way! I will Have to gain That Film Look by other Means Lighting DOF and CC! Thats all I have Left! Thx for replying again Robert! Happy Holidays! __________________ Steven Lee Houser http://vimeo.com/testwork

December 21st, 2006, 12:28 AM	#2
Nate Fields Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Markleville IN Posts: 58	looks good steve who was filmin

December 21st, 2006, 04:01 AM	#4
Zulkifli Yusof Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Singapore Posts: 86	Yea Steve, Phil got it. Since you're using DVFilm, I'm sure you would've read their specifications for film out. They did recommend against cineframe24 for film out.

December 22nd, 2006, 02:44 PM	#6
Robert Kirkpatrick Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: Little Rock, AR Posts: 199	Steven, I don't know if this would help, but I find that using Connect HD with Vegas 7 is the best way to work with the FX1's Cineframe24. It removes the funky parts. I tested straight Cineframe 24 on the Vegas timeline against Cineframe24 (imported with Connect HD) and the Connect HD avi was so much better. Much cleaner footage. Like you, I hate added render times, so for my smaller short film projects I'm willing to lose some resolution (due to the Cineframe24) and use Connect HD to get a better 24 frame look. If you use DVFilm, I recommend you always shoot in 60i with the FX1, and deinterlace with DVFilm from there.