Dell 2407WFP vs. Samsung Syncmaster 244T at DVinfo.net

Alex Thames · October 9th, 2006, 12:50 PM

I am looking to get a large 22-24" monitor, and these two jumbo 24-inchers seemed to be rated as the top two monitors everywhere.

Here is what I would like to do with an ideal monitor in no particular order:
1. Edit HDV 1080i (and in the future 1080p) and 720p videos.
2. Use the monitor as a general computer viewing monitor.
3. Watch DVDs and movies. In the future, watch HD-DVD/Blu-ray, HDTV, and other HD content.
4. Color correct.
5. Field monitor for focusing and viewing while filming.

These are the complaints I have heard about these two monitors:
1. no HDMI with HDCP (though they do have DVI)
2. only S-PVA panel, not MVA (or was it S-MVA or something?) panel (and even MVA doesn't compare to good CRT panels)
3. very little ghosting, but still some ghosting
4. strong noise while watching videos/DVDs/movies
5. bad color accuracy
6. no BFI or MPA technology yet

And specifically bad for the Dell:
1. green dominant overall
2. cannot display some reds/magenta shades - lower color gamut for these colors than Samsung
3. heavy color-banding problems (I think this is with the most current A03 revision)
4. leaking/bad backlight uniformity
5. horrible component quality (I'm not sure what they mean - can anyone elaborate?)

Specifically bad for the Samsung:
1. red/blue dominant overall
2. $150 more than the Dell
3. cannot display as much greens/yellow shades as the Dell
4. no memory card player

Now, my questions are:

1. How bad is the color banding on the Dell with the A03 revision, especially compared to the Samsung? And how do I know which revision the Dell has when I buy?

And I just read this: "The monitor I received for testing was the A00 revision, which was claimed by many to have serious banding and text fuzziness. However, checking in the service menu it seems the Firmware has been updated to the latest version as supplied in the A01 and A02 revisions. The issue then is not what version you receive but the Firmware on it."

from this site: http://www.trustedreviews.com/articl...ge=7173&head=0

2. How bad is the noise when watching videos/DVDs/movies for both monitors? I was reading this review (among many others): http://www.behardware.com/articles/6...sung-244t.html
and it said that both have horrible noise, but I cannot seem to spot it in the scene from the Matrix that they use as an example. Is it just me who can't see anything wrong in that screenshot? Can someone provide a screenshot with one of these two monitors that shows the noise better?

3. I know that monitors I buy now really need to have HDCP support, but how beneficial would having an HDMI input with HDCP be over DVI with HDCP? Especially with HDMI 1.3? I know we're not supposed to look for HDMI 1.3 over 1.1, but rather look to see if the monitor has certain features of 1.3 that we'd like such as Deep Color. Basically, what are the advantages of HDMI over DVI, other than audio being in the same cable as DVI? And are there any monitors with HDMI?

4. In the review (link above), after calibration, both the Dell and the Samsung achieved respectable DeltaE ratings (0.3 and 1.1) respectively. Yet people complain about the Dell color banding and the horrible colors for both - why is this? I know the color isn't 100% accurate, but with those ratings, isn't it close?

On a similar note, how exactly do you calibrate the monitors (I know you can't calibrate completely), but how do you do it to achieve a better result (they got the Dell from 3.7 down to 0.3 and the Samsung from 5.7 to 1.1, which is impressive)?
5. What does the bad backlight uniformity of the Dell look like?

6. Is the Samsung or Dell better in terms of color (not color accuracy, but in terms of viewing the colors - i.e. the color-banding problem of the Dell vs. color in the Samsung)? I know the Samsung is more "vivid," but I'd prefer more accurate, which I think the Dell is - yet the Samsung has a wider red/magneta gamut, while the Dell has wider green/yellow gamut. Yet, is the Dell really that bad when it comes to gradients (does it look completely unnatural?)

7. I've read something about SD and HD have different color spaces. How does this play into the usage of these monitors for working in both SD and HD?

8. Should I buy one of these now or wait until Windows Vista comes out and things start to settle down, wait for BFI/MPA technology, wait for better color accuracy, wait for more acceptable noise when watching videos/DVDs/movies (though I don't think I really see any noise now?) A screenshot that clearly shows this noise would help tremendously.

Thanks!

Caleb Thomas · October 9th, 2006, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Thames

And specifically bad for the Dell:
1. green dominant overall
2. cannot display some reds/magenta shades - lower color gamut for these colors than Samsung
3. heavy color-banding problems (I think this is with the most current A03 revision)
4. leaking/bad backlight uniformity
5. horrible component quality (I'm not sure what they mean - can anyone elaborate?)

I have the Dell along with a 20"LG. The Dell 24 is way, way beyond the "nice" LG in terms of quality. And I was happy with the LG before I got the Dell.

As for all the stuff I quoted above, none of that is the case with mine. Though I've never connected component cables yet so I can't speak on that one. Overall I am so happy with that purchase.

I do agree with the noise problem with most movies though, I wish I knew why that was the case. It seems like it should display DVD's beautifully? Like it does everything else.

Alex Thames · October 9th, 2006, 03:54 PM

Well, virtually all reviews I've read have mentioned a green bias for the Dell. This might not be noticeable on its own. You have to compare against other monitors or true colors to see this.

The same is with the color gamut. You have to do tests to see it. Just looking at the monitor with your naked eye with no reference, of course you won't really notice that the Dell displays less reds than the Samsung.

I just really want to know how the Dell compares to the Samsung in terms of the colors. In some places, Dell is rated higher, but on other sites, Samsung is rated higher - how can this be? One must be more accurate than the other, and one must have a wider overall color gamut.

Don Blish · October 9th, 2006, 06:02 PM

I have been happy with a pair of 21" Gateway FPD2185W screens ($499 each). I use one DVI as a desktop (1050x1680) on my Matrox APVe card and a second connected Analog/Component as the preview display. This works smoothly for PremierePro+AspectHD. I have seen on overall color cast or ghosting.

Graham Hickling · October 9th, 2006, 06:38 PM

Quote: I've read something about SD and HD have different color spaces. How does this play into the usage of these monitors for working in both SD and HD?
------------------------------------

This is a very good question and if someone has the answer or a link then I hope they post it.

An LCD television can accept PAL, NTSC and HD signals, all of which use different colorspaces. NTSC also has that whole black 'setup' thing going on.

Now I assume a good LCD TV figures all this out and applies the correct black levels and color decoding matricies depending on the signal it is receiving. But ... does a computer monitor LCD display do this????? I've never seen this discussed....

Alex Thames · October 9th, 2006, 07:45 PM

Hi guys,

Thanks for the responses so far, but I am interested only in the two monitors listed really. Between the two, I am trying to figure out which one is better in terms of image quality/color quality/color accuracy.

Then I am trying to debate if I should get the better of the two monitors now or wait until a monitor comes out with HDMI with HDCP support as well as other improvements such as better color accuracy, wider color gamut, more uniform backlighting, better panel, BFI and/or MPA technology, etc.

Spike Spiegel · October 11th, 2006, 12:24 AM

We use the 24" sammy 244t (black) and it just phenomal! Samsungs support is awesome as well. A real color balanced reference monitor is needed when you are checking color balance, the LCD is not going to help with that.

The best the LCd can do (besides give you composite /svideo / HDMI ins) is to let you use it on the field, give you the most real estate for editing/graphics apps. Go for the sammy, not only is it more beautiful, you won't have a dell logo staring at you!

Alex Thames · October 11th, 2006, 04:11 PM

Hey guys, I've decided that both brands are inadequate. I am now looking at the 24" BenQ FP241W monitor, whose only flaw seems to be 16:10 aspect ratio with no 1:1 pixel mapping. I may even hold out for the BenQ FP241WZ one which may include 1:1 pixel mapping and will have the new BFI (black frame insertion) technology. The BenQ montior also uses a P-MVA panel, which I think is better than the S-PVA panels that the Samsung and Dell are using. Finally, the BenQ monitor has a HDMI input that supports 1080p! The Dell had huge problems with components and only supports up to 720p I think (people are saying the 1080i was horrible, and it didn't support true 1080p).

The Sammy has reported input lag, so I don't like it, while the Dell has issues all over - especially vertical banding (which may or may not have been solved by the A03 revision, definitely not by the A02 revision like Dell claims).

October 9th, 2006, 12:50 PM	#1
Alex Thames Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New York Posts: 508	Dell 2407WFP vs. Samsung Syncmaster 244T I am looking to get a large 22-24" monitor, and these two jumbo 24-inchers seemed to be rated as the top two monitors everywhere. Here is what I would like to do with an ideal monitor in no particular order: 1. Edit HDV 1080i (and in the future 1080p) and 720p videos. 2. Use the monitor as a general computer viewing monitor. 3. Watch DVDs and movies. In the future, watch HD-DVD/Blu-ray, HDTV, and other HD content. 4. Color correct. 5. Field monitor for focusing and viewing while filming. These are the complaints I have heard about these two monitors: 1. no HDMI with HDCP (though they do have DVI) 2. only S-PVA panel, not MVA (or was it S-MVA or something?) panel (and even MVA doesn't compare to good CRT panels) 3. very little ghosting, but still some ghosting 4. strong noise while watching videos/DVDs/movies 5. bad color accuracy 6. no BFI or MPA technology yet And specifically bad for the Dell: 1. green dominant overall 2. cannot display some reds/magenta shades - lower color gamut for these colors than Samsung 3. heavy color-banding problems (I think this is with the most current A03 revision) 4. leaking/bad backlight uniformity 5. horrible component quality (I'm not sure what they mean - can anyone elaborate?) Specifically bad for the Samsung: 1. red/blue dominant overall 2. $150 more than the Dell 3. cannot display as much greens/yellow shades as the Dell 4. no memory card player Now, my questions are: 1. How bad is the color banding on the Dell with the A03 revision, especially compared to the Samsung? And how do I know which revision the Dell has when I buy? And I just read this: "The monitor I received for testing was the A00 revision, which was claimed by many to have serious banding and text fuzziness. However, checking in the service menu it seems the Firmware has been updated to the latest version as supplied in the A01 and A02 revisions. The issue then is not what version you receive but the Firmware on it." from this site: http://www.trustedreviews.com/articl...ge=7173&head=0 2. How bad is the noise when watching videos/DVDs/movies for both monitors? I was reading this review (among many others): http://www.behardware.com/articles/6...sung-244t.html and it said that both have horrible noise, but I cannot seem to spot it in the scene from the Matrix that they use as an example. Is it just me who can't see anything wrong in that screenshot? Can someone provide a screenshot with one of these two monitors that shows the noise better? 3. I know that monitors I buy now really need to have HDCP support, but how beneficial would having an HDMI input with HDCP be over DVI with HDCP? Especially with HDMI 1.3? I know we're not supposed to look for HDMI 1.3 over 1.1, but rather look to see if the monitor has certain features of 1.3 that we'd like such as Deep Color. Basically, what are the advantages of HDMI over DVI, other than audio being in the same cable as DVI? And are there any monitors with HDMI? 4. In the review (link above), after calibration, both the Dell and the Samsung achieved respectable DeltaE ratings (0.3 and 1.1) respectively. Yet people complain about the Dell color banding and the horrible colors for both - why is this? I know the color isn't 100% accurate, but with those ratings, isn't it close? On a similar note, how exactly do you calibrate the monitors (I know you can't calibrate completely), but how do you do it to achieve a better result (they got the Dell from 3.7 down to 0.3 and the Samsung from 5.7 to 1.1, which is impressive)? 5. What does the bad backlight uniformity of the Dell look like? 6. Is the Samsung or Dell better in terms of color (not color accuracy, but in terms of viewing the colors - i.e. the color-banding problem of the Dell vs. color in the Samsung)? I know the Samsung is more "vivid," but I'd prefer more accurate, which I think the Dell is - yet the Samsung has a wider red/magneta gamut, while the Dell has wider green/yellow gamut. Yet, is the Dell really that bad when it comes to gradients (does it look completely unnatural?) 7. I've read something about SD and HD have different color spaces. How does this play into the usage of these monitors for working in both SD and HD? 8. Should I buy one of these now or wait until Windows Vista comes out and things start to settle down, wait for BFI/MPA technology, wait for better color accuracy, wait for more acceptable noise when watching videos/DVDs/movies (though I don't think I really see any noise now?) A screenshot that clearly shows this noise would help tremendously. Thanks!

October 9th, 2006, 06:02 PM	#4
Don Blish Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Portland OR Posts: 227	Consider Gateway FPD2185W I have been happy with a pair of 21" Gateway FPD2185W screens ($499 each). I use one DVI as a desktop (1050x1680) on my Matrox APVe card and a second connected Analog/Component as the preview display. This works smoothly for PremierePro+AspectHD. I have seen on overall color cast or ghosting.

October 9th, 2006, 03:54 PM	#3
Alex Thames Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New York Posts: 508	Well, virtually all reviews I've read have mentioned a green bias for the Dell. This might not be noticeable on its own. You have to compare against other monitors or true colors to see this. The same is with the color gamut. You have to do tests to see it. Just looking at the monitor with your naked eye with no reference, of course you won't really notice that the Dell displays less reds than the Samsung. I just really want to know how the Dell compares to the Samsung in terms of the colors. In some places, Dell is rated higher, but on other sites, Samsung is rated higher - how can this be? One must be more accurate than the other, and one must have a wider overall color gamut.

October 9th, 2006, 06:38 PM	#5
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	Quote: I've read something about SD and HD have different color spaces. How does this play into the usage of these monitors for working in both SD and HD? ------------------------------------ This is a very good question and if someone has the answer or a link then I hope they post it. An LCD television can accept PAL, NTSC and HD signals, all of which use different colorspaces. NTSC also has that whole black 'setup' thing going on. Now I assume a good LCD TV figures all this out and applies the correct black levels and color decoding matricies depending on the signal it is receiving. But ... does a computer monitor LCD display do this????? I've never seen this discussed....

October 9th, 2006, 07:45 PM	#6
Alex Thames Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New York Posts: 508	Hi guys, Thanks for the responses so far, but I am interested only in the two monitors listed really. Between the two, I am trying to figure out which one is better in terms of image quality/color quality/color accuracy. Then I am trying to debate if I should get the better of the two monitors now or wait until a monitor comes out with HDMI with HDCP support as well as other improvements such as better color accuracy, wider color gamut, more uniform backlighting, better panel, BFI and/or MPA technology, etc.

October 11th, 2006, 12:24 AM	#7
Spike Spiegel Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 429	We use the 24" sammy 244t (black) and it just phenomal! Samsungs support is awesome as well. A real color balanced reference monitor is needed when you are checking color balance, the LCD is not going to help with that. The best the LCd can do (besides give you composite /svideo / HDMI ins) is to let you use it on the field, give you the most real estate for editing/graphics apps. Go for the sammy, not only is it more beautiful, you won't have a dell logo staring at you!

October 11th, 2006, 04:11 PM	#8
Alex Thames Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New York Posts: 508	Hey guys, I've decided that both brands are inadequate. I am now looking at the 24" BenQ FP241W monitor, whose only flaw seems to be 16:10 aspect ratio with no 1:1 pixel mapping. I may even hold out for the BenQ FP241WZ one which may include 1:1 pixel mapping and will have the new BFI (black frame insertion) technology. The BenQ montior also uses a P-MVA panel, which I think is better than the S-PVA panels that the Samsung and Dell are using. Finally, the BenQ monitor has a HDMI input that supports 1080p! The Dell had huge problems with components and only supports up to 720p I think (people are saying the 1080i was horrible, and it didn't support true 1080p). The Sammy has reported input lag, so I don't like it, while the Dell has issues all over - especially vertical banding (which may or may not have been solved by the A03 revision, definitely not by the A02 revision like Dell claims).