Comparison of NLE HD to SD downconversion quality

[Graham Hickling]

Well ... you see where is says "Best" after #3? That's the one to use.

[Devon Lyon]

Yes, clearly...but what does the final one mean?

[Arve Hansen]

Anyone have a tutorial to this encoding from HDV to DV with After Effects 7.0?

[Michael Y Wong]

FYI, just dumping an m2t into Procoder does a stellar job.

I got sick of trying all these intermediate steps via cineform->virtualdub->procoder or cineform->aftereffects->procoder and just rendered out my hdv back to m2t (for tape backup), then also did an m2t->dvd (2 pass vbr high/master quality), and was curious to see how the image would hold up in the most common real life situations (popping the disc into dvd player, output via crt/progressive display devices)

Although when viewing the video file on the pc there may be some jaggies, when watching on tv:

1) interlaced crt - video looks fine, i didnt stand close to the tv searching for jaggies but it looked great on a 29" crt. Normal viewing distnaces the image looks sharp, can't see any jaggies (didnt look for any) and the colour space is fantastic. This test dindt matter too much to me since almost everyone I know (clients included) watches DVDs on some sort of progressive display device

2) progressive display device - i popped the dvd into a pansonic dvd player (progressive scan on) outputted to my wxga dlp projector and even via a 92" screen, the deinterlacer in the dvd player took care of the jaggies. If it wasn't the deinterlacer I dunno what it was, but there we're no jaggies whatsoever, and the image was fantastic and was comparible as to watchign the 1080i m2t file in full resolution (where the projector downconverts it to 480p wxga) coming from the camera itself, even on a 92 inch 16:9 screen.

Moral of story, you can save time just by dumping the M2t into procoder, still yeilding an excelelnt looking dvd (even though it may not look excellent on the comptuter dvd player, but in real life crt/progressive display tv devices it will look great). I would recommened burning a dvd-rw via this simple process and witnessing the results for yourself before spending any more time fiddling with the process. I am anal as hell when it comes to video quality and it really does look great!

Hope this helps!

[Arve Hansen]

I'm very new at HDV.
Last project i convert HDV to DV inside the camera and into Ppro2.0 it was avi. Edit and then export to Encore DVD 2.0. Encorde do the transcode.

But I want to have the editing back to tape in HDV. So can anyone help me?

I capture from HDV into a portabel HDD. I tried HDVsplit to get a scene detect. Then i got .m2t files. Is this the way to capture?

I edit the m2t files into Ppro2.0. Can someone tell me step to step who to get this into Adobe Encore DVD 2.0? I have After Effect too, but need help step by step if i shall use this.

Thanks.

[Chris J. Gearing]

Hi all,
I've tried to contact Mr IJ Walton and in the meantime would appreciate any assistance in how to use premiere pro2 HD project to get the high quality sd mpegs discussed here using after effects.
I have tried for several months, playing with different appliciations such as v/dub/tmpg/cce etc but sounds here that after effects may be worth trying.
Do people here agree with Mr Walton?
I have just downloaded the trial after effects but with ZERO knowledge of how to use this software need to understand how to involve same with the pp2 hd project.
Do I export the hd project using cineform hd avi etc or import the entire hd project into after effects etc and what next etc regards final export to sd mpeg to author my dvd.
Any help greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

[Steven Gotz]

I would try exporting the CFHD AVI at 1440X1080 and then import that into a SD project. Scale it down yourself. Either make it fit into a 16:9 SD project, or in a 4:3 project you can scale it down to letterbox, or a little less and the edges will be cut off. I use the third method mostly. It is easy to zoom in and out and pan left and right to get the best part of the large frame into the small frame.

[Panos Bournias]

I agree with Michael. M2t to procoder works great. Is fast and easy to use. I convert m2t files from footage 30fr/sec to PAL and they look even better than the NTSC, but it takes 2X to transcode.
Give it a try
Panos

[Spike Spiegel]

guys, what about a 10 bit downconversion thru a capture card like a Aja xena/kona? Anyone try this method? I imagine, playing back the HDV footage 10 bit downconverted to SD, outputted to Digibeta or some other format, should look quite nice.

I havn't tested this, but I will soon,and report back.

[Kevin Shaw]

Originally Posted by Spike Spiegel

guys, what about a 10 bit downconversion thru a capture card like a Aja xena/kona? Anyone try this method? I imagine, playing back the HDV footage 10 bit downconverted to SD, outputted to Digibeta or some other format, should look quite nice.

I would think that once you've recorded HDV to tape with 8-bit data, there's little if anything to be gained by running it through a 10-bit system for downconverting to SD. Applying effects at 10-bit might help, but for a simple downconvert it probably wouldn't.

[Luis de la Cerda]

I've been there myself, doing the whole virtualdub/after effects song and dance. I'm amazed at the time I willingly spent to preserve the best quality achievable for my projects. But last december, NewTek finally shipped the missing piece of the puzzle I had been waiting for al year long, SpeedEdit. Even if you don't like it as an editor, even if you only use it for transcoding, I reduced my prep time for projects from 2-3 weeks to less than a full wek with it. SpeedEdit does the hdv to sd transcoding faster than realtime with amazing quality, and you can throw in some very powerful color correction into the mix. I really recommend it as an editor though. The speed at which it handles very complex projects is really something special and, again, the quality is just top notch.

My .02

[Brad Tyrrell]

Been playing/testing a lot of these workflows. It seems I don't need VirtualDub and can export a PP2 timeline to Tmpgenc 4 express to the 2 streams Encore needs and end up with a very nice SD DVD.

I'm trying to decide whether or not the Aspect HD is worth it. The intermediate format makes it MUCH easier in PP2 although frame grabs are slightly clearer direct from an HDV timeline.

I can edit an HDV timeline in PP2, send it through the Tsunami to Encore (I notice that takes a Cineform codec for the HD avi out of PP2) or use the Cineform intermediate in and out of PP2 to Tmpgenc to Encore with very similar results.

On close inspection, I do see some color artifacts without the intermediate. $500... hmmm...

Also, been trying to frameserve to Tmpgenc from PP2 and can't get it to work. Although, from the Debugmode link on the Adobe site I get the impression there may be color shortcomings with framserving anyway.

I'd better decide. My 14 days are just about up.

[Steven Gotz]

All I know is that every time someone says "how do I export to ..." or "What codec does Sorenson take" or so many other things, the answer always seems to be "Cineform Aspect HD".

I have no problems, yet people editing "native" do. I have to conclude that Aspect HD is the right way to go.

I think that Adobe should have just taken an exclusive license from the beginning and included all of the new versions of the codec and other feature as Cineform developed them. EIther that, or at least attempted to come up with something as good.

[Paul Wags]

We just sent our new underwater DVD to the replicators.
Edited the HDV material with the EDIUS 4 and the Canopus HQ codec. 700 GIGS and compiled down to just 57 GIGS
Did all real time slowmo and CC with it.
Encoded out a progressive PAL MPEG2 DVD file straight from the 55 minute 1440/1080 timeline @ CBR of 8.5mbps with Procoder Express. 2.5 hours.

Made it up with with DVD lab Pro and even burn't the master with it as the ones we did with Nero and Gear Pro failed the verification tests when comparing the files on the computer...go figure....

Test played it over and over in a old powerbook G4 OS9 Mac laptop.
A old PC Toshiba laptop.
Two other computers with a CRT and LCD screens.
Normal old 4.3 TV with a very fussy SONY DVD player.
An feed it out from the same player to our Epson TW700 projector to our 100 inch screen.

No compaints this end, looks and plays great.

The CC with EDIUS is very good, cannot believe what we achieved with some of our dirty underwater footage with it.

As shot
http://www.hdvunderwater.com/videoclips/cc.jpg
After real time CC
http://www.hdvunderwater.com/videoclips/cc1.jpg

[Brad Tyrrell]

Originally Posted by Steven Gotz

I think that Adobe should have just taken an exclusive license from the beginning and included all of the new versions of the codec and other feature as Cineform developed them. EIther that, or at least attempted to come up with something as good.

That's also in the back of my mind. What's Adobe coming up with for the Summer? Will PP3 have integrated Cineform? How annoyed will I be if I buy Aspect and the summer Adobe upgrade already has it?

Any press leaks?