Comparison of NLE HD to SD downconversion quality

Devon Lyon · November 13th, 2006, 09:52 PM

Question to those who are also experimenting with this process: why go through the virtual dub process to resize? I have tried both methods and it seems to me that the PPro 2.0 export as a Cineform HD .avi file imported directly into TMPEGenc and just resized in that program works fine. Am I missing some reason not to just let TMPEGenc just resize as it creates the MPEG?

BTW - I do agree that TMPEGenc quality SD MPEG makes for a MUCH nicer picture over the standard Adobe Media Encoder MPEG-2 DVD export that I used to use.

Paul Wags · November 14th, 2006, 09:20 AM

Interesting Post great work..

I found that encoding out a DVD file with Prem Pro and Aspect HD from a HDV timline better if I went straight out with Procoder 2 than to HDV to DV to DVD. I could also make progessive DVD's this way for much beter quality.

Now I have EDIUS 4, standard DVD's are abit soft but if you encode out progressive mpeg 2 file straight from the timline they look heaps better.

Im in PAL land and watching PAL and NTSC ones I have made, PAL is beter/larger due to more resolution. PAL- 720/576 NTSC- 720/480

Here are PAL / NTSC files I made straight from the EDIUS PAL HDV timline.
m2t ones
http://www.hdvunderwater.com/videoclips/NTSCshark.m2t 42megs
http://www.hdvunderwater.com/videoclips/PALshark.m2t 42megs

And here is a couple wmv ones
http://www.hdvunderwater.com/videoclips/pal.wmv
http://www.hdvunderwater.com/videoclips/ntsc.wmv

I J Walton · November 14th, 2006, 10:26 AM

All I have to say about this topic is; ADOBE AFTER EFFECTS 7.0.

I have done hundreds of tests after being dissapointed with Premiere pro 2's crappy downconverts. I have tried the latest Vegas and V'dub and all were soft.

The only way to make an SD clip out of HDV is to resize on render in after effests 7 (select PAL/NTSC widscreen from dropdown menu in stretch box).

I swear that this is THE method to use from all my tests. It looks so good rendered to Huffyuv that it still looks almost like HDV. Super clear, give it a try.

My two cents.

Devon Lyon · November 14th, 2006, 11:10 AM

I J:

What do you mean by "It looks so good rendered to Huffyuv"?

Does that mean that Huffyuv is a MPEG2 codec I can install into After Effects?

I J Walton · November 14th, 2006, 01:12 PM

When I render my HDV (intermediate codec, like cineform for example) to SD in After Effects, I use the Huffyuv lossless codec to keep the best possible quality. Then I take this Huffyuv SD file into Premiere Pro 2 for encoding to MPEG2 (or your own choice of MPEG2 encoder).

I find this to be the absolute best way to keep HD clarity on SD DVD.

Marc Plomp · November 14th, 2006, 03:37 PM

can I do this also with AE 6.0. (I don't have 7.0)
thanks.

I J Walton · November 14th, 2006, 04:22 PM

I'm not sure. I haven't used AE 6. I think there was a update download that made it suport HDV, I dont know. If you have HDV working in AE6, then I see no reason why it wouldnt work.

Lee Wilson · November 14th, 2006, 07:13 PM

Another vote for After Effects as the preeminent resolution squeezer™ - I have converted many a HD project to SD with fantastic results.

Lee Wilson · November 14th, 2006, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Plomp

can I do this also with AE 6.0. (I don't have 7.0)
thanks.

I just imported some HDV 1080i (Apple intermediate codec) footage into After Effects 5.5 - no problems.

Marc Plomp · November 15th, 2006, 10:17 AM

Thanks a lot, I treid 6.0 but I couldn't import a PP1.5.1 hdv clip. I download the trailversie AE7.0 and it worked. But I can't find the huffyuv codec. Can someexplain where I can find this codec.
Also when I rerender a HDV clip to lossless (no compression) DV/pal After effects does a great jobb. The new clip is very sharp. Maybe huffyuv is better,

Thanks

Graham Hickling · November 15th, 2006, 10:37 AM

http://neuron2.net/www.math.berkeley...fyuv-2.1.1.zip

Marc Plomp · November 15th, 2006, 11:40 AM

Thanks, this link works, now I can render to huffyuv.

Devon Lyon · November 15th, 2006, 01:33 PM

Ok, I downloaded the zip Huffey and installed it. Where in After Effects 7.0 does it actually give me the option to use the codec?

Marc Plomp · November 15th, 2006, 03:57 PM

I found it back in the screen render-options. (after I drag the clip into that screen) normally there is the setting "no compressed" when you click on that , there is an new screen with different options. Succes

Devon Lyon · November 15th, 2006, 06:12 PM

Thanks, found it! OK, another question, under the Huffy Configuration Dialog box, what "RGB Compression Method" is the best?

There are a number of options: (1) Predict Left No Decorr (Fastest); (2) Predict Left; (3) Predict Gradient (best); (4) Convert to YUY2

Thoughts?

November 13th, 2006, 09:52 PM	#16
Devon Lyon Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 213	Question to those who are also experimenting with this process: why go through the virtual dub process to resize? I have tried both methods and it seems to me that the PPro 2.0 export as a Cineform HD .avi file imported directly into TMPEGenc and just resized in that program works fine. Am I missing some reason not to just let TMPEGenc just resize as it creates the MPEG? BTW - I do agree that TMPEGenc quality SD MPEG makes for a MUCH nicer picture over the standard Adobe Media Encoder MPEG-2 DVD export that I used to use. __________________ Lyon Films www.LyonFilms.com;

November 14th, 2006, 11:10 AM	#19
Devon Lyon Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 213	I J: What do you mean by "It looks so good rendered to Huffyuv"? Does that mean that Huffyuv is a MPEG2 codec I can install into After Effects? __________________ Lyon Films www.LyonFilms.com;

November 14th, 2006, 03:37 PM	#21
Marc Plomp Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Texel, the Netherlands Posts: 42	can I do this also with AE 6.0. (I don't have 7.0) thanks. __________________ regards, Marc Plomp www.natuurdigitaal.nl the Netherlands

November 15th, 2006, 10:17 AM	#25
Marc Plomp Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Texel, the Netherlands Posts: 42	Thanks a lot, I treid 6.0 but I couldn't import a PP1.5.1 hdv clip. I download the trailversie AE7.0 and it worked. But I can't find the huffyuv codec. Can someexplain where I can find this codec. Also when I rerender a HDV clip to lossless (no compression) DV/pal After effects does a great jobb. The new clip is very sharp. Maybe huffyuv is better, Thanks __________________ regards, Marc Plomp www.natuurdigitaal.nl the Netherlands

November 15th, 2006, 11:40 AM	#27
Marc Plomp Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Texel, the Netherlands Posts: 42	Thanks, this link works, now I can render to huffyuv. __________________ regards, Marc Plomp www.natuurdigitaal.nl the Netherlands

November 14th, 2006, 09:20 AM	#17
Paul Wags Ruler of the DownUnder UnderWorld Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Cairns- Queensland - Australia Posts: 248	Interesting Post great work.. I found that encoding out a DVD file with Prem Pro and Aspect HD from a HDV timline better if I went straight out with Procoder 2 than to HDV to DV to DVD. I could also make progessive DVD's this way for much beter quality. Now I have EDIUS 4, standard DVD's are abit soft but if you encode out progressive mpeg 2 file straight from the timline they look heaps better. Im in PAL land and watching PAL and NTSC ones I have made, PAL is beter/larger due to more resolution. PAL- 720/576 NTSC- 720/480 Here are PAL / NTSC files I made straight from the EDIUS PAL HDV timline. m2t ones http://www.hdvunderwater.com/videoclips/NTSCshark.m2t 42megs http://www.hdvunderwater.com/videoclips/PALshark.m2t 42megs And here is a couple wmv ones http://www.hdvunderwater.com/videoclips/pal.wmv http://www.hdvunderwater.com/videoclips/ntsc.wmv

November 14th, 2006, 10:26 AM	#18
I J Walton Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 40	All I have to say about this topic is; ADOBE AFTER EFFECTS 7.0. I have done hundreds of tests after being dissapointed with Premiere pro 2's crappy downconverts. I have tried the latest Vegas and V'dub and all were soft. The only way to make an SD clip out of HDV is to resize on render in after effests 7 (select PAL/NTSC widscreen from dropdown menu in stretch box). I swear that this is THE method to use from all my tests. It looks so good rendered to Huffyuv that it still looks almost like HDV. Super clear, give it a try. My two cents.

November 14th, 2006, 01:12 PM	#20
I J Walton Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 40	When I render my HDV (intermediate codec, like cineform for example) to SD in After Effects, I use the Huffyuv lossless codec to keep the best possible quality. Then I take this Huffyuv SD file into Premiere Pro 2 for encoding to MPEG2 (or your own choice of MPEG2 encoder). I find this to be the absolute best way to keep HD clarity on SD DVD.

November 14th, 2006, 04:22 PM	#22
I J Walton Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 40	I'm not sure. I haven't used AE 6. I think there was a update download that made it suport HDV, I dont know. If you have HDV working in AE6, then I see no reason why it wouldnt work.

November 14th, 2006, 07:13 PM	#23
Lee Wilson Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 376	Another vote for After Effects as the preeminent resolution squeezer™ - I have converted many a HD project to SD with fantastic results.

November 15th, 2006, 10:37 AM	#26
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	http://neuron2.net/www.math.berkeley...fyuv-2.1.1.zip

November 15th, 2006, 01:33 PM	#28
Devon Lyon Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 213	Ok, I downloaded the zip Huffey and installed it. Where in After Effects 7.0 does it actually give me the option to use the codec? __________________ Lyon Films www.LyonFilms.com;

November 15th, 2006, 03:57 PM	#29
Marc Plomp Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Texel, the Netherlands Posts: 42	I found it back in the screen render-options. (after I drag the clip into that screen) normally there is the setting "no compressed" when you click on that , there is an new screen with different options. Succes __________________ regards, Marc Plomp www.natuurdigitaal.nl the Netherlands

November 15th, 2006, 06:12 PM	#30
Devon Lyon Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 213	Thanks, found it! OK, another question, under the Huffy Configuration Dialog box, what "RGB Compression Method" is the best? There are a number of options: (1) Predict Left No Decorr (Fastest); (2) Predict Left; (3) Predict Gradient (best); (4) Convert to YUY2 Thoughts? __________________ Lyon Films www.LyonFilms.com;