1080i50 to 720p50 Conversion at DVinfo.net

Anthony Bristol · June 17th, 2006, 03:07 AM

Hi All,

I have searched the forums high and low for a definitive answer but havn't found anything concrete on this process. I would like to turn my Z1 footage into 50p for slowmotion work, preferable at 720p but SD would be great too for now. The process is baffling, I see JES-Deinterlacer mentioned but no instructions how to operate it. Does anyone have any experience with this workflow? (mac or pc)

Thanks and Regards,

Anthony

John Jay · June 17th, 2006, 05:45 AM

Its a piece of cake if you have Canopus Procoder - start with 1080P50 and work your way down

Apply filter 'Adaptive deinterlace' on 1080i dominant field and render to a movie A.avi, then

Apply filter 'Adaptive deinterlace' on 1080i non-dominant field and render to a movie B.avi, then in post interleave the two movies to a new movie AB.avi; so that every frame is in the order A1B1,A2B2....AnBn

This will give you 1080P50 from which you can down sample to choice.

Graeme Nattress · June 17th, 2006, 01:11 PM

My G Map Frames plugin part of my Standards Conversion package for FCP will do exactly what you want - slow 1080i50 to 1080p50 for conversion to 720p50.

Graeme

Anthony Bristol · June 17th, 2006, 02:04 PM

Hi Guys, thanks for your replies. John, It looks like a step or 2 more than I would like, but as you would generally only be slow-moing (is that correct??!?) a few clips at most on any piece of work, then it shouldn't be too big a deal. I'll have to look into Canopus, I wonder if the same process could be used on PremierePro? Graeme, If I do switch to the dark side you'll be my first port of call :p

Whilst I don't have either Canopus (I'll look into it) or a Mac (resisting temptation), my friend has managed to get some 50p footage on the go using the free JES Deinterlacer for Mac. It looks great and he should be posting some footage here asap, otherwise I will.

Cheers!

Ben Coughlan · June 19th, 2006, 02:06 AM

Hi there, After searching the internet and forums searching for the best way to achieve 50p from the footage shot on my Sony Z1 at 1080 50i, one solution i read about was JES deinterlacer, which is a free software that has many different deinterlacing functions. I tried this and imported my 1080 50i clip in and then set the project to deinterlace both fields, and then set the output to export at 576p (PAL) so i was downconverting at the same time. This then left me with an exported clip at 576p 50fps. I then imported this in to FCP on to a DV PAL timeline and played fine at 100% speed, when i then tried to slow the clip to 50% it had strange results. The image was flickering and jumping back and forth. I tried a few different things to try and corect this but nothing seemed to work. My solution was a setting in JES as i was deinterlacing. I checked the box 'DOUBLE MOVIE DURATION' which slows the clip to 50% as it deinterlace's leaving you with a clip that is already slow motion when you import to FCP. I read about some other methods about how people achieve slow motion at 50fps and as this was my first time it was very much trial and error, i would love to hear how other people achieve this. I did read that one of Greammes plug-ins can achieve simular results with the 'fields and frames' generator. I did try this and draged the generator on to the timeline and then placed the clip i wanted to use into the source clip box. I had strange results with this too, simular to the results i had with the deinterlaced footage from JES that hadnt been slowed down and was 50fps. Any input would be much appreciated, anyway here is the footage for you guys to see.

http://www.aestheticvisions.co.uk/vi...motiontest.mov

Anthony Bristol · June 19th, 2006, 05:13 AM

Getting the footage even slower can be achieved with some 3rd party help. I used Revisions Twixtor on a segment of Bens clip to get effectivley 100p. This is my first time playing with the software, no motion blur was used. With a little tweaking I think we could get a slightly better motion. Still, I think it looks pretty good.

http://www.anthonybristol.com/video/twixtor2.mov

Next up will be an attempt to get 720p50 working and perhaps 720p100+ with the help of Twixtor. Problems arrise now due to FCP not supporting 720p25(50) and only being able to do it in Premiere Pro with the Cineform Trial.

Graeme Nattress · June 19th, 2006, 07:03 AM

You're probably not taking into account that HDV is upper field? Also, my G Map Frames is much more suited to the task than "Fields to Frames". I've done the conversion myself with Map Frames and it works superbly well.

Graeme

Ben Coughlan · June 19th, 2006, 02:17 PM

Hi Graeme, I have been doing some tests with your 'G Map Frames' Plugin with FANTASTIC results. I was un sure which mode to select from the drop down menu, but 'fields to frames fast' seemed to give me the best results. Is this correct? Thanks for your input!!!

Graeme Nattress · June 19th, 2006, 02:26 PM

Fields to frames fast or the other, perhaps higher quality fields to frames are the right options!

Graeme

Heath McKnight · July 9th, 2006, 07:44 AM

Though I'm a Final Cut Pro user, I've seen my friends on Vegas do these techniques, as well.

heath

June 17th, 2006, 03:07 AM	#1
Anthony Bristol Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London Posts: 38	1080i50 to 720p50 Conversion Hi All, I have searched the forums high and low for a definitive answer but havn't found anything concrete on this process. I would like to turn my Z1 footage into 50p for slowmotion work, preferable at 720p but SD would be great too for now. The process is baffling, I see JES-Deinterlacer mentioned but no instructions how to operate it. Does anyone have any experience with this workflow? (mac or pc) Thanks and Regards, Anthony

June 17th, 2006, 05:45 AM	#2
John Jay Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: US & THEM Posts: 827	Its a piece of cake if you have Canopus Procoder - start with 1080P50 and work your way down Apply filter 'Adaptive deinterlace' on 1080i dominant field and render to a movie A.avi, then Apply filter 'Adaptive deinterlace' on 1080i non-dominant field and render to a movie B.avi, then in post interleave the two movies to a new movie AB.avi; so that every frame is in the order A1B1,A2B2....AnBn This will give you 1080P50 from which you can down sample to choice. __________________ John Jay Beware *PLUGGER-BYTES*

June 17th, 2006, 01:11 PM	#3
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	My G Map Frames plugin part of my Standards Conversion package for FCP will do exactly what you want - slow 1080i50 to 1080p50 for conversion to 720p50. Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

June 19th, 2006, 07:03 AM	#7
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	You're probably not taking into account that HDV is upper field? Also, my G Map Frames is much more suited to the task than "Fields to Frames". I've done the conversion myself with Map Frames and it works superbly well. Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

June 19th, 2006, 02:26 PM	#9
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	Fields to frames fast or the other, perhaps higher quality fields to frames are the right options! Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

June 17th, 2006, 02:04 PM	#4
Anthony Bristol Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London Posts: 38	Hi Guys, thanks for your replies. John, It looks like a step or 2 more than I would like, but as you would generally only be slow-moing (is that correct??!?) a few clips at most on any piece of work, then it shouldn't be too big a deal. I'll have to look into Canopus, I wonder if the same process could be used on PremierePro? Graeme, If I do switch to the dark side you'll be my first port of call :p Whilst I don't have either Canopus (I'll look into it) or a Mac (resisting temptation), my friend has managed to get some 50p footage on the go using the free JES Deinterlacer for Mac. It looks great and he should be posting some footage here asap, otherwise I will. Cheers!

June 19th, 2006, 02:06 AM	#5
Ben Coughlan New Boot Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: liphook, United Kingdom Posts: 11	Hi there, After searching the internet and forums searching for the best way to achieve 50p from the footage shot on my Sony Z1 at 1080 50i, one solution i read about was JES deinterlacer, which is a free software that has many different deinterlacing functions. I tried this and imported my 1080 50i clip in and then set the project to deinterlace both fields, and then set the output to export at 576p (PAL) so i was downconverting at the same time. This then left me with an exported clip at 576p 50fps. I then imported this in to FCP on to a DV PAL timeline and played fine at 100% speed, when i then tried to slow the clip to 50% it had strange results. The image was flickering and jumping back and forth. I tried a few different things to try and corect this but nothing seemed to work. My solution was a setting in JES as i was deinterlacing. I checked the box 'DOUBLE MOVIE DURATION' which slows the clip to 50% as it deinterlace's leaving you with a clip that is already slow motion when you import to FCP. I read about some other methods about how people achieve slow motion at 50fps and as this was my first time it was very much trial and error, i would love to hear how other people achieve this. I did read that one of Greammes plug-ins can achieve simular results with the 'fields and frames' generator. I did try this and draged the generator on to the timeline and then placed the clip i wanted to use into the source clip box. I had strange results with this too, simular to the results i had with the deinterlaced footage from JES that hadnt been slowed down and was 50fps. Any input would be much appreciated, anyway here is the footage for you guys to see. http://www.aestheticvisions.co.uk/vi...motiontest.mov

June 19th, 2006, 05:13 AM	#6
Anthony Bristol Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London Posts: 38	Getting the footage even slower can be achieved with some 3rd party help. I used Revisions Twixtor on a segment of Bens clip to get effectivley 100p. This is my first time playing with the software, no motion blur was used. With a little tweaking I think we could get a slightly better motion. Still, I think it looks pretty good. http://www.anthonybristol.com/video/twixtor2.mov Next up will be an attempt to get 720p50 working and perhaps 720p100+ with the help of Twixtor. Problems arrise now due to FCP not supporting 720p25(50) and only being able to do it in Premiere Pro with the Cineform Trial.

June 19th, 2006, 02:17 PM	#8
Ben Coughlan New Boot Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: liphook, United Kingdom Posts: 11	Hi Graeme, I have been doing some tests with your 'G Map Frames' Plugin with FANTASTIC results. I was un sure which mode to select from the drop down menu, but 'fields to frames fast' seemed to give me the best results. Is this correct? Thanks for your input!!!

July 9th, 2006, 07:44 AM	#10
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Though I'm a Final Cut Pro user, I've seen my friends on Vegas do these techniques, as well. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog