HVRM25U deck...will it have component inputs? at DVinfo.net

Paul Frederick · June 8th, 2006, 06:58 PM

This deck is coming out "this summer" and looks promising. I really want a deck that can record realtime HDV Component signals from a FCP timeline via a KONA LH card. This would save me HOURS and HOURS of rendering the timeline out to HDV, then doing a print to tape. Does anyone know if this deck has component inputs and can record to HDV tape through them? I could edit using a higher codec and then just play the timeline, while the deck records real time to an HDV tape via its component inputs! It would be a thing of beauty!

All the web info I see says "Versatile I/O" whatever that means!

Anyone with ties to Sony know anything? Douglas Spotted Eagle? Anyone?

Douglas R. Bruce · June 9th, 2006, 04:49 AM

I have one in front of me now.
Been playing with it for about 2 weeks now.
It is not certain that the USA version will be exactly the same - but most likely.
You have S-video in, S-video out, Analog in, Analog out
Component out - no component in!
HDMI out.
HDV/DVCAM/DV in/out through the I-link

I have had no problem capturing and recording back to tape with DVCAM, DV, S-video and analog but so far I have been unsuccessful recording HDV back to the deck through the I-link connected to my computer.

I will be meeting some Sony staff tomorrow (Saturday) and ask them if the problem is with me or my setup.

I have not tried recording direct from a feed from the camera.
However it will have to be via the I-link, as there is no Component in.

Paul Frederick · June 9th, 2006, 07:19 AM

Douglas,

That is too bad. I will not buy this deck now. What's wrong with Sony? Those of us with Kona or Decklink cards are screaming for this solution, all we need is component inputs that will record to HDV. I recently did an hour long show. To print to tape took 5 HOURS! Then a change was needed so guess what, another 5 hour render! I could play it on the timeline in realtime fine with my KONA card, if I had an HDV deck with component in's, it would've been real time. I guess it'll be JVC that comes up with this but I'll bet it'll be 720p, not 1080i.

If you talk with those SONY reps, tell them we NEED this feature!

Sorry for the rant.....

Douglas R. Bruce · June 9th, 2006, 08:51 AM

Paul,
I know this is no further help in your Component in question, but just to satisfy myself I connected my Sony Z1 to the M25 by the I-link and was able to record HDV to tape without any hitches.
If nothing else it points to my computer or software or my computer setup as the problem - in my case.

I will mention your concern tomorrow........

Paul Frederick · June 9th, 2006, 02:22 PM

Thanks Douglas,

I'm using FCP5 and sometimes it has a hard time recognizing the camera when I go to "print to tape". Not sure why, but I have to sometimes unplug the firewire, close out of FCP5 and then re-open and try it again. It usually recognizes it the second time. Weird issue that I haven't found an answer for. I wonder if this deck is the same thing? Are you using FCP5?

Douglas R. Bruce · June 9th, 2006, 05:20 PM

Thanks Paul,
I am with you on the unplug the I-link bit.
I am using Liquid Edition (Pinnacle/Avid) and it is recognising the deck but there may be a problem with MP@HL and MP@H-14 Mpeg-2 codecs.
I am sure I will get it working soon.....until then I am collecting plenty of HDV material to work with.

Douglas R. Bruce · June 10th, 2006, 06:33 PM

The result of my meeting with the Sony staff was........ Confusion - mumbles about I-link firmware versions - software incompatability - etc.
However the outcome is that on Monday someone will come by and take my deck to do some tests...... to see if I have a faulty deck or if indeed the problems lie at my end.

As to the Component in - the reps I met did not know if there were any plans to iclude a component in possibility in some future model - but they promised to look into it and check with their main office about future plans.
If I get any information, I will post it here later.
(In Japan "later" can be in a few weeks or more. The vision of people stressed to death by working and rushing around is not a reality outside of Tokyo.......... Well, not usually........

Paul Frederick · June 12th, 2006, 06:17 AM

Thanks for relaying my concerns Douglas. I hope they figure out your deck problems. Unfortunately, by the time they come out with a new deck, I'll bet JVC or Panasonic will already have one out with component in's.

Good luck.

Douglas R. Bruce · June 17th, 2006, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Frederick

I hope they figure out your deck problems.

Good luck.

I got the deck back yesterday.
They had tested it with FCP. Same thing - it could not record the timeline to the deck in HDV.
However, after re-installing FCP it worked for them. Someone att Apple had suggested that FCP was remembering that it had only worked with DV before.....a re-install would give it a chance to learn to work with the HDV too (I have over simplified the answer - but I guess you get the general idea)

I am working with Pinnacle Liquid Edition 6.1 (Now an Avid product).

I did not re-install my LE but I made sure that all settings in the software were set before I switched on the M25.
I tried recording a new HDV timeline - IT WORKED!!!

There were 2 differences in my setup compared to the times I failed.
1) I had updated my graphic card drivers
2) I used a completely blank new tape. (I have a suspicion that in the failed attempts I had been using a tape that already had some timecode from a DVCam job!!)

Conclusion. The HVR-M25 is a little quirky to set up with software ( At least with FCP and LE) but one you get it right things are great!

But for you, Paul, no glimmer of light that there will be component in - sorry.

Giroud Francois · June 17th, 2006, 04:41 PM

did you try to apply the same procedure than for the previous models ?
knowing when the ilink is set to automatic to switch between DV and HDV it does not work very well, but forcing the drive to DV or HDV in the menu, solved the problem for many people.
For components recording, forget it since component cannot be protected, so there is very few chances that a company (especially sony that has so much interest in copyright protection) would shoot in the foot of the big majors by producing a recorder able to record HD from component.

Douglas R. Bruce · June 18th, 2006, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giroud Francois

did you try to apply the same procedure than for the previous models ?
knowing when the ilink is set to automatic to switch between DV and HDV it does not work very well, but forcing the drive to DV or HDV in the menu, solved the problem for many people.

My previous Editdeck was a Sony DSR-25. So I did not have an HDV option.
This was the first time I had a choice.
Indeed, as you say, it has to be set for HDV and not Auto - or else it will not detect the HDV input.

Quote:

For components recording, forget it since component cannot be protected, so there is very few chances that a company (especially sony that has so much interest in copyright protection) would shoot in the foot of the big majors by producing a recorder able to record HD from component.

The question about the component in was originally from another posting.
Thanks for clarifying the copyright aspect. I am sure that answers the question.

Merci beaucoup

Paul Frederick · June 19th, 2006, 07:14 AM

Douglas,

I'm sure you're right about the component in and copyright. I guess they figure if you can afford a HDCAM deck you are not a pirate! I'll take one that records via SDI in too, but I need a cheap version, not one that costs $60k+.

I'm glad you got the deck to work, and thanks for the heads up for FC, though I don't think I'll be getting this deck now. If I can only record HDV via firewire, I'll buy another camera and use it as a feeder deck (some of these cams are now cheaper than this deck) and I'll have a second backup camera to boot.

June 8th, 2006, 06:58 PM	#1
Paul Frederick Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: WestChazy, NY Posts: 291	HVRM25U deck...will it have component inputs? This deck is coming out "this summer" and looks promising. I really want a deck that can record realtime HDV Component signals from a FCP timeline via a KONA LH card. This would save me HOURS and HOURS of rendering the timeline out to HDV, then doing a print to tape. Does anyone know if this deck has component inputs and can record to HDV tape through them? I could edit using a higher codec and then just play the timeline, while the deck records real time to an HDV tape via its component inputs! It would be a thing of beauty! All the web info I see says "Versatile I/O" whatever that means! Anyone with ties to Sony know anything? Douglas Spotted Eagle? Anyone?

June 9th, 2006, 04:49 AM	#2
Douglas R. Bruce Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Kumamoto City, Japan Posts: 136	I have one in front of me now. Been playing with it for about 2 weeks now. It is not certain that the USA version will be exactly the same - but most likely. You have S-video in, S-video out, Analog in, Analog out Component out - no component in! HDMI out. HDV/DVCAM/DV in/out through the I-link I have had no problem capturing and recording back to tape with DVCAM, DV, S-video and analog but so far I have been unsuccessful recording HDV back to the deck through the I-link connected to my computer. I will be meeting some Sony staff tomorrow (Saturday) and ask them if the problem is with me or my setup. I have not tried recording direct from a feed from the camera. However it will have to be via the I-link, as there is no Component in. __________________ I was produced in Scotland, edited in Sweden, and am now showing in Japan. http://www.gaijin-eyes.com

June 9th, 2006, 08:51 AM	#4
Douglas R. Bruce Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Kumamoto City, Japan Posts: 136	Paul, I know this is no further help in your Component in question, but just to satisfy myself I connected my Sony Z1 to the M25 by the I-link and was able to record HDV to tape without any hitches. If nothing else it points to my computer or software or my computer setup as the problem - in my case. I will mention your concern tomorrow........ __________________ I was produced in Scotland, edited in Sweden, and am now showing in Japan. http://www.gaijin-eyes.com

June 9th, 2006, 05:20 PM	#6
Douglas R. Bruce Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Kumamoto City, Japan Posts: 136	Thanks Paul, I am with you on the unplug the I-link bit. I am using Liquid Edition (Pinnacle/Avid) and it is recognising the deck but there may be a problem with MP@HL and MP@H-14 Mpeg-2 codecs. I am sure I will get it working soon.....until then I am collecting plenty of HDV material to work with. __________________ I was produced in Scotland, edited in Sweden, and am now showing in Japan. http://www.gaijin-eyes.com

June 10th, 2006, 06:33 PM	#7
Douglas R. Bruce Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Kumamoto City, Japan Posts: 136	The result of my meeting with the Sony staff was........ Confusion - mumbles about I-link firmware versions - software incompatability - etc. However the outcome is that on Monday someone will come by and take my deck to do some tests...... to see if I have a faulty deck or if indeed the problems lie at my end. As to the Component in - the reps I met did not know if there were any plans to iclude a component in possibility in some future model - but they promised to look into it and check with their main office about future plans. If I get any information, I will post it here later. (In Japan "later" can be in a few weeks or more. The vision of people stressed to death by working and rushing around is not a reality outside of Tokyo.......... Well, not usually........ __________________ I was produced in Scotland, edited in Sweden, and am now showing in Japan. http://www.gaijin-eyes.com

June 9th, 2006, 07:19 AM	#3
Paul Frederick Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: WestChazy, NY Posts: 291	Douglas, That is too bad. I will not buy this deck now. What's wrong with Sony? Those of us with Kona or Decklink cards are screaming for this solution, all we need is component inputs that will record to HDV. I recently did an hour long show. To print to tape took 5 HOURS! Then a change was needed so guess what, another 5 hour render! I could play it on the timeline in realtime fine with my KONA card, if I had an HDV deck with component in's, it would've been real time. I guess it'll be JVC that comes up with this but I'll bet it'll be 720p, not 1080i. If you talk with those SONY reps, tell them we NEED this feature! Sorry for the rant.....

June 9th, 2006, 02:22 PM	#5
Paul Frederick Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: WestChazy, NY Posts: 291	Thanks Douglas, I'm using FCP5 and sometimes it has a hard time recognizing the camera when I go to "print to tape". Not sure why, but I have to sometimes unplug the firewire, close out of FCP5 and then re-open and try it again. It usually recognizes it the second time. Weird issue that I haven't found an answer for. I wonder if this deck is the same thing? Are you using FCP5?

June 12th, 2006, 06:17 AM	#8
Paul Frederick Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: WestChazy, NY Posts: 291	Thanks for relaying my concerns Douglas. I hope they figure out your deck problems. Unfortunately, by the time they come out with a new deck, I'll bet JVC or Panasonic will already have one out with component in's. Good luck.

June 17th, 2006, 04:41 PM	#10
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	did you try to apply the same procedure than for the previous models ? knowing when the ilink is set to automatic to switch between DV and HDV it does not work very well, but forcing the drive to DV or HDV in the menu, solved the problem for many people. For components recording, forget it since component cannot be protected, so there is very few chances that a company (especially sony that has so much interest in copyright protection) would shoot in the foot of the big majors by producing a recorder able to record HD from component.

June 19th, 2006, 07:14 AM	#12
Paul Frederick Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: WestChazy, NY Posts: 291	Douglas, I'm sure you're right about the component in and copyright. I guess they figure if you can afford a HDCAM deck you are not a pirate! I'll take one that records via SDI in too, but I need a cheap version, not one that costs $60k+. I'm glad you got the deck to work, and thanks for the heads up for FC, though I don't think I'll be getting this deck now. If I can only record HDV via firewire, I'll buy another camera and use it as a feeder deck (some of these cams are now cheaper than this deck) and I'll have a second backup camera to boot.