Z1 & Chroma Key at DVinfo.net

Nate Pope · May 18th, 2006, 04:49 PM

I am about to take on a major HD project where 90% of the shots are against green screen. When it comes to a camera purchase I'm pretty much sold on the Z1, but I'm a little worried about chroma keying since it's only 4:2:0. Does the higher resolution make up for this?
What about movement of the talent, can the Z1 key cleanly? (slow walking is all she'll be doing)

Your thoughts, experience, and clips would much appreciated!

I'll will be editing on a quad G5, using AE's Keylight to do all the compositing.
-Nate

Chris Barcellos · May 18th, 2006, 05:09 PM

Nate:

I was trying to locate a pretty good thread on this forum that came up about two to three months ago. The ultimate conclusion most came to regarding success with the HDV process was that lighting and the right software had more to do with success than hdv and or a particular brand of HDV camera.
If I come across the thread I will post it here.

Boyd Ostroff · May 18th, 2006, 05:19 PM

Maybe it was one of these threads?

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=42828
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=43796
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=62616

Chris Barcellos · May 18th, 2006, 10:29 PM

Thanks Boyd, those were ones I was looking for.

James Huenergardt · May 18th, 2006, 11:57 PM

I've had great success with Keylight and the Z1U. But, you must light your talent well and the greenscreen properly too.

I'd run some experiments first. That will not only give you some practice, but also build your confidence level during your shoot.

Jim

Nate Pope · May 19th, 2006, 12:34 PM

Thanks guys! Very helpful.

Hey Jim, I was wondering about two things with Keylight.
Does it do well with movement of the talent?
What kind of lighting ratios are you typically aiming for when you light?

Any pitfalls I need look out for when shooting with ZI and Keyilght?

Sorry for all the questions..just looking for some peace of mind before I buy.

-nate

Joe Lumbroso · May 19th, 2006, 01:32 PM

I have fair success using a Z1U and FCP/AE's built in matte effects. In my experience the major keys were keeping the talent as far away from the green screen your space allots you. Light the green screen evenly and make sure there is no spill. I then turn off those lights and light my talent independently. Make sure the green doesn't reflect onto the talent's clothing.

You definately want to spend some time doing tests before your actual shoot. A lot of it is trial and error. You'll notice the second segment of this clip is far better quality, the actual finished project was even better: http://www.feelthisfilms.com/media/test3.mov

James Huenergardt · May 19th, 2006, 04:12 PM

I can't remember any specific details, but what worked the best was what Joe said about lighting the screen first, then turning those off, etc.

Also, I captured using Cineform HD, created the key in AE and then down-converted to SD which made a great looking key.

Total Training has a great series on the Pro features of AE with Steve Holmes and using Keylight.

Also, a great book is After Effects 6.5 Studio Techniques by Mark Christiansen.

Both of those talk in detail about Keylight.

Experiment, experiment, experiment... That's how you learn. I'm still experimenting quite a bit myself.

Jim

Heath McKnight · June 22nd, 2006, 07:45 PM

At the film school I work at, we've been doing a little greenscreen with the Z1 and the students. Because Ultra 2 doesn't yet support 50i (unless something changed recently), we are shooting in 60i and using Vegas' conversion to 24p.

heath

May 18th, 2006, 04:49 PM	#1
Nate Pope Tourist Join Date: May 2006 Location: kansas city, mo Posts: 2	Z1 & Chroma Key I am about to take on a major HD project where 90% of the shots are against green screen. When it comes to a camera purchase I'm pretty much sold on the Z1, but I'm a little worried about chroma keying since it's only 4:2:0. Does the higher resolution make up for this? What about movement of the talent, can the Z1 key cleanly? (slow walking is all she'll be doing) Your thoughts, experience, and clips would much appreciated! I'll will be editing on a quad G5, using AE's Keylight to do all the compositing. -Nate

May 18th, 2006, 05:09 PM	#2
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Nate: I was trying to locate a pretty good thread on this forum that came up about two to three months ago. The ultimate conclusion most came to regarding success with the HDV process was that lighting and the right software had more to do with success than hdv and or a particular brand of HDV camera. If I come across the thread I will post it here. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

May 18th, 2006, 10:29 PM	#4
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Thanks Boyd, those were ones I was looking for. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

May 19th, 2006, 01:32 PM	#7
Joe Lumbroso Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 110	I have fair success using a Z1U and FCP/AE's built in matte effects. In my experience the major keys were keeping the talent as far away from the green screen your space allots you. Light the green screen evenly and make sure there is no spill. I then turn off those lights and light my talent independently. Make sure the green doesn't reflect onto the talent's clothing. You definately want to spend some time doing tests before your actual shoot. A lot of it is trial and error. You'll notice the second segment of this clip is far better quality, the actual finished project was even better: http://www.feelthisfilms.com/media/test3.mov __________________ Brilliant Champions \| Gallery Hijinks

June 22nd, 2006, 07:45 PM	#9
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	At the film school I work at, we've been doing a little greenscreen with the Z1 and the students. Because Ultra 2 doesn't yet support 50i (unless something changed recently), we are shooting in 60i and using Vegas' conversion to 24p. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

May 18th, 2006, 05:19 PM	#3
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Maybe it was one of these threads? http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=42828 http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=43796 http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=62616

May 18th, 2006, 11:57 PM	#5
James Huenergardt Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Chehalis, WA Posts: 513	I've had great success with Keylight and the Z1U. But, you must light your talent well and the greenscreen properly too. I'd run some experiments first. That will not only give you some practice, but also build your confidence level during your shoot. Jim

May 19th, 2006, 12:34 PM	#6
Nate Pope Tourist Join Date: May 2006 Location: kansas city, mo Posts: 2	Thanks guys! Very helpful. Hey Jim, I was wondering about two things with Keylight. Does it do well with movement of the talent? What kind of lighting ratios are you typically aiming for when you light? Any pitfalls I need look out for when shooting with ZI and Keyilght? Sorry for all the questions..just looking for some peace of mind before I buy. -nate

May 19th, 2006, 04:12 PM	#8
James Huenergardt Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Chehalis, WA Posts: 513	I can't remember any specific details, but what worked the best was what Joe said about lighting the screen first, then turning those off, etc. Also, I captured using Cineform HD, created the key in AE and then down-converted to SD which made a great looking key. Total Training has a great series on the Pro features of AE with Steve Holmes and using Keylight. Also, a great book is After Effects 6.5 Studio Techniques by Mark Christiansen. Both of those talk in detail about Keylight. Experiment, experiment, experiment... That's how you learn. I'm still experimenting quite a bit myself. Jim