Final Cut Pro at DVinfo.net

Dean Orewiler · February 19th, 2006, 11:39 PM

I am beginning my video experience. I purchased an XL1s and I want to start shooting professionally - learning from books, experiences, and from nice folks like you ! I hear that Final Cut Pro is the way to go....which version should I buy that is reasonable and will give me the professional edge I need - I'm new to this, so please be easy on me....
Is Magic Bullet a separate program?? Can it capture video through DV cable to the computer and then edit and do post production effects or is it simply one program that does a specific thing?
What about Stib's Simple Level??
Or FCP's color correction

These are key words I'm hearing people talk about....I want a program that can do many things without spending a ton of money.

I was looking online at the trailer of BROKEN..a really neat look shot with mini DV....they were using some of this software I mentioned. PS I have quite a bit of extensive knowledge of Photoshop 7.0...so I do many post effects with layers.

Can anybody help me out?
Thanks
Dean

Boyd Ostroff · February 20th, 2006, 08:25 AM

Hi Dean. On the Mac there's Final Cut Express, and then there's Final Cut Pro; those are the only "versions" unless you're looking to buy something older. Final Cut Express is a good value, but missing some of the more powerful features. It only works with DV and HDV, while Final Cut Pro handles a bunch of other formats. FCE doesn't have the 3 way color corrector and can't do batch captures. I'm sure there are some other differences as well. For more info see: http://www.apple.com/finalcutexpress/

Now Apple has recently announced that it will no longer sell Final Cut Pro as a standalone program. Now you have to buy Final Cut Studio which includes a whole suite of applications (Soundtrack Pro, Motion, DVD Studio Pro). These are all good things to have, and I think the cost is reasonable for what you get, but of course it costs a lot more than FCE: http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/

Magic Bullet is a package of plug-ins that work with FCP and After Effects(possibly FCE as well). I haven't used it so I can't help much there. I haven't really done anything with them, but Stib's is a package of plug-ins for FCP which I think are free: http://www.pureandapplied.com.au/

Another nice add-on is the "Joes Filters" package of plug-ins: http://www.joesfilters.com/ They are very reasonably priced and have free demo modes. And of course our own Graeme Nattress has a very nice package of FCP plug-ins also: http://www.nattress.com/

But honestly, if you plan to make the switch you should just get Final Cut for starters and learn what it can do. There's a wealth of stuff there already and you should learn how to use a lot of it before you start adding new features.

Graeme Nattress · February 20th, 2006, 11:08 AM

My Film Effects filters (used on Broken) at www.nattress.com will do all you need to make your video look filmic. You don't need anything else at all. As your camera doesn't shoot 24p, it will make your video look like 24p for you too.

For editing you need FCP. You can only get the full studio now, but it's a great great package. Get FCP, get my filters, and you've got the stuff you need to make your DV video look very filmic indeed.

Graeme

Kurth Bousman · February 20th, 2006, 12:19 PM

Graeme, just to throw this in , your filters , as you're aware , also work great in fce , although I haven't tried them in fce-hd , they do work great in v2. Dean , you can buy legal copies of express hd on ebay for $160-$190. Throw in the bill for graemes' set and that's alot cheaper starting off than buying fcstudio. And although studio is the "real " thing , you can do alot in express esp. if you're only doing dv and also learn the interface so it will be easier to jump to pro if you later decide so. And in my opinion forget magic bullet. One , if you use the full version , you also need aftereffects and the render times are horrendous. And editors is only a " looks " suite and goes for 3 bills just by itself. So I'd look into fcehd and nattress as the solution you're after. The grand you save can go towards hardware instead. As always the advice is free and worth every penny. Kurth

Jack D. Hubbard · February 20th, 2006, 12:33 PM

Graeme:

I am interested in your film plug-ins. Also would like to know more about Set 1 & 2. I am doing videos for clients that are pretty straight forward on FCP5 (marketing pieces done like news, for example). They look fine, but some cases need some extra flourishes.

Any suggestions?

Jack

Graeme Nattress · February 20th, 2006, 12:39 PM

Jack, best thing to do is try them and see! The free demos give you all the plugins and instructions, mildly watermarked, so you can see what you're getting.

Graeme

Jack D. Hubbard · February 20th, 2006, 12:59 PM

Thanks, Graeme, I'll give 'em a shot.
JH

Dean Orewiler · February 20th, 2006, 04:31 PM

thanks for the info Graeme and Kurth...with the nattress software...what do you recommend to buy from it....the film look and what else would be good for color timing??

Graeme Nattress · February 20th, 2006, 04:35 PM

"Film Effects" http://www.nattress.com/Products/fil...ilmeffects.htm would be the package you'd want to get then.

Graeme

Dean Orewiler · February 20th, 2006, 04:52 PM

Also, I have windows....is this available in that format?? If not, what else could I use so I can use the nattress software with it?

Boyd Ostroff · February 20th, 2006, 04:57 PM

Final Cut Pro and Final Cut Express only run on the Mac. Is that what you're asking?

Kurth Bousman · February 20th, 2006, 04:59 PM

oh no !!!! Well Dean , we all assumed since you posted on the fcp thread that you had mac - Bub , you're out of luck- With that extra savings , there you go - buy yourself an ibook and go to town. But none of this works on windows os- you gotta have mac osX . Sorry - Kurth

Dean Orewiler · February 20th, 2006, 07:59 PM

Oh bummer....does anybody know of a product that is similiar to FCE that can be purchased for Windows?? Like Adobe Premire??

Ryan Douthit · February 20th, 2006, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Orewiler

Oh bummer....does anybody know of a product that is similiar to FCE that can be purchased for Windows?? Like Adobe Premire??

Vegas is good. Close to FCE on the PC. I used it before switching the office over to Macs (for reasons other than just Final Cut). The $99 express version is great if you want to use it a bit, and dont need a ton of layers, before buying the $600 version. I'm pretty sure Magic Bullet for Editors will work with the cheaper variant of Vegas as well.

R

Glenn Chan · February 20th, 2006, 10:59 PM

Ditto to the Vegas recommendation.

An alternative to MBE for Vegas is Celluloid. Not sure if it works with the express equivalent of Vegas... it does work with the full version of Vegas.

Celluloid just uses the filters in Vegas to get particular looks. You can get the same looks if you know what you're doing.

http://www.vasst.com/product.aspx?id...9-d80848cbd5ca

2- To get a film look in Vegas:
The latest version of Vegas 6 has a good 60i to 24p conversion.

Use the color curves filter to do a s-shaped curve.
http://www.glennchan.info/Proofs/dvi...lor-curves.veg

Use the color corrector if you want to play with saturation.

Use gradient map for adding tints. (use the blend mode, not add)

3- I've been playing around with After Effects lately, and its neat for color correction because it's like Photoshop for video.

Shadow/highlight is neat and isn't found elsewhere. It lets you get more detail / ?fake exposure latitude? / lets you really push contrast.

There's a luminosity composite mode, which is good to use in conjunction with curves. Luminosity sometimes looks a little weird sometimes though. This is unique and not found in other programs.

I believe you can motion track masks (to isolate color corrections to one area, which can be over a moving object).

There may be good educational discounts on these products mentioned.

February 19th, 2006, 11:39 PM	#1
Dean Orewiler Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 186	Final Cut Pro I am beginning my video experience. I purchased an XL1s and I want to start shooting professionally - learning from books, experiences, and from nice folks like you ! I hear that Final Cut Pro is the way to go....which version should I buy that is reasonable and will give me the professional edge I need - I'm new to this, so please be easy on me.... Is Magic Bullet a separate program?? Can it capture video through DV cable to the computer and then edit and do post production effects or is it simply one program that does a specific thing? What about Stib's Simple Level?? Or FCP's color correction These are key words I'm hearing people talk about....I want a program that can do many things without spending a ton of money. I was looking online at the trailer of BROKEN..a really neat look shot with mini DV....they were using some of this software I mentioned. PS I have quite a bit of extensive knowledge of Photoshop 7.0...so I do many post effects with layers. Can anybody help me out? Thanks Dean

February 20th, 2006, 11:08 AM	#3
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	My Film Effects filters (used on Broken) at www.nattress.com will do all you need to make your video look filmic. You don't need anything else at all. As your camera doesn't shoot 24p, it will make your video look like 24p for you too. For editing you need FCP. You can only get the full studio now, but it's a great great package. Get FCP, get my filters, and you've got the stuff you need to make your DV video look very filmic indeed. Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

February 20th, 2006, 12:33 PM	#5
Jack D. Hubbard Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Menlo Park, CA Posts: 342	Film effects Graeme: I am interested in your film plug-ins. Also would like to know more about Set 1 & 2. I am doing videos for clients that are pretty straight forward on FCP5 (marketing pieces done like news, for example). They look fine, but some cases need some extra flourishes. Any suggestions? Jack

February 20th, 2006, 12:39 PM	#6
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	Jack, best thing to do is try them and see! The free demos give you all the plugins and instructions, mildly watermarked, so you can see what you're getting. Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

February 20th, 2006, 12:59 PM	#7
Jack D. Hubbard Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Menlo Park, CA Posts: 342	Demos Thanks, Graeme, I'll give 'em a shot. JH

February 20th, 2006, 08:25 AM	#2
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Hi Dean. On the Mac there's Final Cut Express, and then there's Final Cut Pro; those are the only "versions" unless you're looking to buy something older. Final Cut Express is a good value, but missing some of the more powerful features. It only works with DV and HDV, while Final Cut Pro handles a bunch of other formats. FCE doesn't have the 3 way color corrector and can't do batch captures. I'm sure there are some other differences as well. For more info see: http://www.apple.com/finalcutexpress/ Now Apple has recently announced that it will no longer sell Final Cut Pro as a standalone program. Now you have to buy Final Cut Studio which includes a whole suite of applications (Soundtrack Pro, Motion, DVD Studio Pro). These are all good things to have, and I think the cost is reasonable for what you get, but of course it costs a lot more than FCE: http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/ Magic Bullet is a package of plug-ins that work with FCP and After Effects(possibly FCE as well). I haven't used it so I can't help much there. I haven't really done anything with them, but Stib's is a package of plug-ins for FCP which I think are free: http://www.pureandapplied.com.au/ Another nice add-on is the "Joes Filters" package of plug-ins: http://www.joesfilters.com/ They are very reasonably priced and have free demo modes. And of course our own Graeme Nattress has a very nice package of FCP plug-ins also: http://www.nattress.com/ But honestly, if you plan to make the switch you should just get Final Cut for starters and learn what it can do. There's a wealth of stuff there already and you should learn how to use a lot of it before you start adding new features.

February 20th, 2006, 12:19 PM	#4
Kurth Bousman Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: san miguel allende , gto , mexico Posts: 644	Graeme, just to throw this in , your filters , as you're aware , also work great in fce , although I haven't tried them in fce-hd , they do work great in v2. Dean , you can buy legal copies of express hd on ebay for $160-$190. Throw in the bill for graemes' set and that's alot cheaper starting off than buying fcstudio. And although studio is the "real " thing , you can do alot in express esp. if you're only doing dv and also learn the interface so it will be easier to jump to pro if you later decide so. And in my opinion forget magic bullet. One , if you use the full version , you also need aftereffects and the render times are horrendous. And editors is only a " looks " suite and goes for 3 bills just by itself. So I'd look into fcehd and nattress as the solution you're after. The grand you save can go towards hardware instead. As always the advice is free and worth every penny. Kurth

February 20th, 2006, 04:31 PM	#8
Dean Orewiler Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 186	one more thing.. thanks for the info Graeme and Kurth...with the nattress software...what do you recommend to buy from it....the film look and what else would be good for color timing??

February 20th, 2006, 04:35 PM	#9
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	"Film Effects" http://www.nattress.com/Products/fil...ilmeffects.htm would be the package you'd want to get then. Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

February 20th, 2006, 04:52 PM	#10
Dean Orewiler Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 186	windows version of FCE ?? Also, I have windows....is this available in that format?? If not, what else could I use so I can use the nattress software with it?

February 20th, 2006, 04:57 PM	#11
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Final Cut Pro and Final Cut Express only run on the Mac. Is that what you're asking?

February 20th, 2006, 04:59 PM	#12
Kurth Bousman Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: san miguel allende , gto , mexico Posts: 644	oh no !!!! Well Dean , we all assumed since you posted on the fcp thread that you had mac - Bub , you're out of luck- With that extra savings , there you go - buy yourself an ibook and go to town. But none of this works on windows os- you gotta have mac osX . Sorry - Kurth

February 20th, 2006, 07:59 PM	#13
Dean Orewiler Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 186	Oh Crap Oh bummer....does anybody know of a product that is similiar to FCE that can be purchased for Windows?? Like Adobe Premire??

February 20th, 2006, 10:59 PM	#15
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Ditto to the Vegas recommendation. An alternative to MBE for Vegas is Celluloid. Not sure if it works with the express equivalent of Vegas... it does work with the full version of Vegas. Celluloid just uses the filters in Vegas to get particular looks. You can get the same looks if you know what you're doing. http://www.vasst.com/product.aspx?id...9-d80848cbd5ca 2- To get a film look in Vegas: The latest version of Vegas 6 has a good 60i to 24p conversion. Use the color curves filter to do a s-shaped curve. http://www.glennchan.info/Proofs/dvi...lor-curves.veg Use the color corrector if you want to play with saturation. Use gradient map for adding tints. (use the blend mode, not add) 3- I've been playing around with After Effects lately, and its neat for color correction because it's like Photoshop for video. Shadow/highlight is neat and isn't found elsewhere. It lets you get more detail / ?fake exposure latitude? / lets you really push contrast. There's a luminosity composite mode, which is good to use in conjunction with curves. Luminosity sometimes looks a little weird sometimes though. This is unique and not found in other programs. I believe you can motion track masks (to isolate color corrections to one area, which can be over a moving object). There may be good educational discounts on these products mentioned.