Progressive formats: 480p60 and 720p60 at DVinfo.net

Graham Hickling · January 26th, 2006, 10:09 AM

OK I've confused myself...I'm sure someone here can provide clarity.

Question 1: If I take regular DVD with 480i60 material on it and play it through a 'progressive-scan' player, what's the output? 480p30 or 480p60?

Question 2: My JVC-HD1 can produce 480p60 .m2t files. I can play these back through the camera's component outputs to an HD TV, correct? However converting it to a DVD-compatible mpeg2 stream will require it is converted to either 480p30 or 480i60, right?

Question 3: Am I correct in assuming that the new blueray or HD-DVD disks and players are going to support 480p60?

Question 4: What about 720p60? It is easy enough to create that in post from 1080i60 material ... but is 720p60 a valid HDV format? If so, what will I be able to deliver it on - now and in the future? (I assume my JVC-HD can't play it, right?)

Thanks in advance!

Shannon Rawls · January 28th, 2006, 09:08 PM

Question 1: If I take regular DVD with 480i60 material on it and play it through a 'progressive-scan' player, what's the output? 480p30 or 480p60?

It will still be 480i60. Remember...60i means 60 scans, not frames. 60i is still 29.97 frames. If the DVD is created using 60i footage, the progressive decoder in the DVD player will not kick in. It only kicks in if the DVD is created with progressive footage.

Question 2: My JVC-HD1 can produce 480p60 .m2t files. I can play these back through the camera's component outputs to an HD TV, correct? However converting it to a DVD-compatible mpeg2 stream will require it is converted to either 480p30 or 480i60, right?

No...it will be a 480p60 DVD. not p30 or i60, but a true p60 DVD. Ofcourse you will only be able to save 1/2 the length of footage on it, because its taking twice as much disc space. Remember, a 480p24 DVD can fit more footage then a 480p30 or 480i60 DVD. And this is why, you'll be LUCKY to find a program that will create a 480p60 DVD. I've never seen one that will. But if you did find one and did make youself a 480p60 DVD, any player should be able to play it. DVD players don't care how many frames are in each second of footage.

Question 3: Am I correct in assuming that the new blueray or HD-DVD disks and players are going to support 480p60?

I defer that question to someone else.

Question 4: What about 720p60? It is easy enough to create that in post from 1080i60 material ... but is 720p60 a valid HDV format? If so, what will I be able to deliver it on - now and in the future? (I assume my JVC-HD can't play it, right?)

I defer that question to someone else.

- ShannonRawls.com

Graham Hickling · January 29th, 2006, 10:24 PM

Thanks Shannon.

Hmmm ... according to several sites 30 frames per sec is the legal maximum within the MPEG2 specification (and thus within the DVD spec as well). Which is why the encoders don't have 60p as an output option.

So I guess that means the 480p60 that the JVCs produce is not 'legal' MPEG2....

By the way, for anyone experimenting here's the basic avisynth script to generate rather nice-looking 480p60 avi's from your 1080i material:

AviSource ("file.avi")
Assume TFF
Separatefields
Lanczosresize(720,480)

January 26th, 2006, 10:09 AM	#1
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	Progressive formats: 480p60 and 720p60 OK I've confused myself...I'm sure someone here can provide clarity. Question 1: If I take regular DVD with 480i60 material on it and play it through a 'progressive-scan' player, what's the output? 480p30 or 480p60? Question 2: My JVC-HD1 can produce 480p60 .m2t files. I can play these back through the camera's component outputs to an HD TV, correct? However converting it to a DVD-compatible mpeg2 stream will require it is converted to either 480p30 or 480i60, right? Question 3: Am I correct in assuming that the new blueray or HD-DVD disks and players are going to support 480p60? Question 4: What about 720p60? It is easy enough to create that in post from 1080i60 material ... but is 720p60 a valid HDV format? If so, what will I be able to deliver it on - now and in the future? (I assume my JVC-HD can't play it, right?) Thanks in advance!

January 28th, 2006, 09:08 PM	#2
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	Question 1: If I take regular DVD with 480i60 material on it and play it through a 'progressive-scan' player, what's the output? 480p30 or 480p60? It will still be 480i60. Remember...60i means 60 scans, not frames. 60i is still 29.97 frames. If the DVD is created using 60i footage, the progressive decoder in the DVD player will not kick in. It only kicks in if the DVD is created with progressive footage. Question 2: My JVC-HD1 can produce 480p60 .m2t files. I can play these back through the camera's component outputs to an HD TV, correct? However converting it to a DVD-compatible mpeg2 stream will require it is converted to either 480p30 or 480i60, right? No...it will be a 480p60 DVD. not p30 or i60, but a true p60 DVD. Ofcourse you will only be able to save 1/2 the length of footage on it, because its taking twice as much disc space. Remember, a 480p24 DVD can fit more footage then a 480p30 or 480i60 DVD. And this is why, you'll be LUCKY to find a program that will create a 480p60 DVD. I've never seen one that will. But if you did find one and did make youself a 480p60 DVD, any player should be able to play it. DVD players don't care how many frames are in each second of footage. Question 3: Am I correct in assuming that the new blueray or HD-DVD disks and players are going to support 480p60? I defer that question to someone else. Question 4: What about 720p60? It is easy enough to create that in post from 1080i60 material ... but is 720p60 a valid HDV format? If so, what will I be able to deliver it on - now and in the future? (I assume my JVC-HD can't play it, right?) I defer that question to someone else. - ShannonRawls.com __________________ Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition.

January 29th, 2006, 10:24 PM	#3
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	60p isn't legal for mpeg2 Thanks Shannon. Hmmm ... according to several sites 30 frames per sec is the legal maximum within the MPEG2 specification (and thus within the DVD spec as well). Which is why the encoders don't have 60p as an output option. So I guess that means the 480p60 that the JVCs produce is not 'legal' MPEG2.... By the way, for anyone experimenting here's the basic avisynth script to generate rather nice-looking 480p60 avi's from your 1080i material: AviSource ("file.avi") Assume TFF Separatefields Lanczosresize(720,480)