M2T editor for exporting to tape at DVinfo.net

Dan Robinson · December 10th, 2005, 06:10 PM

We had a thread a couple of weeks ago on the Womble MPEG Video Wizard, which edits and saves M2T files natively. This is great because basic editing can be accomplished with no re-rendering loss unless effects are added. Problem is the final M2T from this software will not export to tape, at least on the FX1.

For a few hundred extra dollars, with Cineform's Aspect HD I could convert to intermediate AVI, edit in Premiere, export to M2T, then export to tape. This process works, but there are two generations there (M2T -> AVI -> M2T) as opposed to zero with the Womble editor.

Ideally I'd like the best of both worlds, basic native M2T editing with no rerendering that can be exported to tape. Anyone have any ideas?

Michael Stewart · December 10th, 2005, 09:27 PM

MainConcept

Dan Robinson · December 10th, 2005, 09:54 PM

Thanks Michael, I'll give that a try!

Tyler Pruitt · December 11th, 2005, 01:33 PM

Womble tools really suck , they leave Mpeg2 errors all over the place when you edit stuff with them. The tool alot of people I know switched to is VideoReDo. Its a Frame accurate Mpeg2 editor with native Transport Stream support. Plus it has cool feature called Quick Stream Fix, which fixes any errors or timestamp gaps in existing streams.

best thing is it has a full function 15day free trail. After that its only 50$ for the software. VideoReDo also has a very active development team that really listens to its users, (native Transport Stream support was added after a few of us asked for it! )

you can download it at http://www.videoredo.com

-just for the record I have no connection with the company.

-Tyler

Dan Euritt · December 12th, 2005, 12:41 PM

i have never seen an mpeg2 error that was created by womble software.

the last time i looked at videoredo, it was a consumer-level tool that didn't begin to compare to the womble products... in fact, if i recall it correctly, the owner of the videoredo product specifically stated on their forum that his software was not dvd-compliant... it was basically a toy for hackers to rip dvds with.

Tyler Pruitt · December 12th, 2005, 07:53 PM

DVD compliant? Are we not talking about 1080i m2t (transport stream) editing?

and no, you cant rip DVDs with VideoReDo.

if you think Womble doesnt create Mpeg2 Errors, just run one of the output files through "Mpeg2Repair" (its a freeware tool) and you will see what I am talkign about.

-Tyler

Dan Euritt · December 13th, 2005, 06:41 PM

i have repeatedly checked womble-edited files with several software tools... never an error.

i like how you deliberately avoided addressing the fact that videoredo is not dvd-compliant... are you claiming that videoredo is fully hdv-compliant?

the videoredo.com home page specifically states: "Edit DVDs"... and it gives step-by-step instructions on how to rip dvds using another app... so it's target market it very clear.

Tyler Pruitt · December 15th, 2005, 01:02 AM

What does DVDs have to do with editing 1080i HIGH DEF m2t's ?

I know first hand that womble tools do cause errors, because of the sloppy way they edit Mpeg2 HD streams.

I find it funny that your quick to attack VideoReDo when you have never used it.

I just know that 5-6 friends of mine that Edit HD mpeg2 all the time, have all switched to VideoReDo.

Tyler Pruitt · December 15th, 2005, 01:07 AM

double post.

Dan Euritt · December 15th, 2005, 12:07 PM

the fact that videoredo is apparently not dvd-compliant is indicative of it's status as a consumer application, not something that you'd want to use professionally.

considering your status as a new member of this forum, i think it's reasonable to question your motives for bashing the womble tools... especially when you can't even prove to us that videoredo is fully hdv-compatible.

have you ever edited an hdv file with videoredo, then exported it back out to hdv tape?

Tom Roper · December 15th, 2005, 09:40 PM

I've used Womble MPEG Video Wizard for about two years now. It's always had bugs, glitches or some issue, and a bunch of revisions to fix them.

That said, I think they got it right on the last upgrade. It works properly. But I don't think they claim compliance with the HDV specs, rather they just state support for m2t transport streams.

I think that's an important distinction because not being able to upload to HDV tape may have more to do with insuring that HDV cams and decks do not become the tools for hackers with copyrighted HDTV material.

As far as I have been able to determine, the Womble generated streams are compatible with playback on computers and network media players like the AVeL Linkplayer2.

Richard Firnges · December 16th, 2005, 05:57 AM

At the moment I do some experiments with the newest version of cuttermaran (Freeware).
First I took HDTVtoMPEG2 to convert the transport - stream into a MPEG stream. This file can be demuxt with TMPEG Encoder. The elementary streams can be cut (at any frame) and merged with cuttermaran. So far it works. The last steps multiplexing and creating a .ts file - well so far I didnt had the time to try it out. Maybe muxing in TMPEG and converting with HDTVtoMPEG2 will work. If it works it out it will be a nice way to do "smaller repairs or modifications" on finished HDV - projects without qualtity losses where the intermediate files are no longer existent.

Greetings

Richard

Dan Euritt · December 16th, 2005, 12:47 PM

i was a pc network admin for 10 years, so i can guarantee you that all software is released with bugs, gliches, and revisions... the biggest software companies in the world have to balance budgets and deadlines, so premature releasing of software is normal... and in fact, it's typical for the end user to be part of the bug fixing process these days.

i have worked with womble software practically since it first came out, and none of the bug fixes that i have seen were serious; it's largely been upgrades, and tweaks for obscure issues that most people never even notice, as you can see for yourself by looking at the documentation on their website.

womble does not get paid to protect hdv copyrights, so that is not a factor... if anything, full hdv compatibility is something that you all need to request from womble... if they get enuf requests, i'd imagine that it will be included, barring any hdv licensing issues.

so far we have not seen any evidence to suggest that videoredo creates hdv files, so the hunt continues.

December 10th, 2005, 06:10 PM	#1
Dan Robinson Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Charleston, West Virginia Posts: 131	M2T editor for exporting to tape We had a thread a couple of weeks ago on the Womble MPEG Video Wizard, which edits and saves M2T files natively. This is great because basic editing can be accomplished with no re-rendering loss unless effects are added. Problem is the final M2T from this software will not export to tape, at least on the FX1. For a few hundred extra dollars, with Cineform's Aspect HD I could convert to intermediate AVI, edit in Premiere, export to M2T, then export to tape. This process works, but there are two generations there (M2T -> AVI -> M2T) as opposed to zero with the Womble editor. Ideally I'd like the best of both worlds, basic native M2T editing with no rerendering that can be exported to tape. Anyone have any ideas?

December 10th, 2005, 09:27 PM	#2
Michael Stewart Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Spokane, Wa. Posts: 445	MainConcept

December 10th, 2005, 09:54 PM	#3
Dan Robinson Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Charleston, West Virginia Posts: 131	Thanks Michael, I'll give that a try!

December 11th, 2005, 01:33 PM	#4
Tyler Pruitt New Boot Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Seattle,WA Posts: 6	Womble tools really suck , they leave Mpeg2 errors all over the place when you edit stuff with them. The tool alot of people I know switched to is VideoReDo. Its a Frame accurate Mpeg2 editor with native Transport Stream support. Plus it has cool feature called Quick Stream Fix, which fixes any errors or timestamp gaps in existing streams. best thing is it has a full function 15day free trail. After that its only 50$ for the software. VideoReDo also has a very active development team that really listens to its users, (native Transport Stream support was added after a few of us asked for it! ) you can download it at http://www.videoredo.com -just for the record I have no connection with the company. -Tyler

December 12th, 2005, 12:41 PM	#5
Dan Euritt Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 1,132	i have never seen an mpeg2 error that was created by womble software. the last time i looked at videoredo, it was a consumer-level tool that didn't begin to compare to the womble products... in fact, if i recall it correctly, the owner of the videoredo product specifically stated on their forum that his software was not dvd-compliant... it was basically a toy for hackers to rip dvds with.

December 12th, 2005, 07:53 PM	#6
Tyler Pruitt New Boot Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Seattle,WA Posts: 6	DVD compliant? Are we not talking about 1080i m2t (transport stream) editing? and no, you cant rip DVDs with VideoReDo. if you think Womble doesnt create Mpeg2 Errors, just run one of the output files through "Mpeg2Repair" (its a freeware tool) and you will see what I am talkign about. -Tyler

December 13th, 2005, 06:41 PM	#7
Dan Euritt Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 1,132	i have repeatedly checked womble-edited files with several software tools... never an error. i like how you deliberately avoided addressing the fact that videoredo is not dvd-compliant... are you claiming that videoredo is fully hdv-compliant? the videoredo.com home page specifically states: "Edit DVDs"... and it gives step-by-step instructions on how to rip dvds using another app... so it's target market it very clear.

December 15th, 2005, 01:02 AM	#8
Tyler Pruitt New Boot Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Seattle,WA Posts: 6	What does DVDs have to do with editing 1080i HIGH DEF m2t's ? I know first hand that womble tools do cause errors, because of the sloppy way they edit Mpeg2 HD streams. I find it funny that your quick to attack VideoReDo when you have never used it. I just know that 5-6 friends of mine that Edit HD mpeg2 all the time, have all switched to VideoReDo.

December 15th, 2005, 01:07 AM	#9
Tyler Pruitt New Boot Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Seattle,WA Posts: 6	double post.

December 15th, 2005, 12:07 PM	#10
Dan Euritt Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 1,132	the fact that videoredo is apparently not dvd-compliant is indicative of it's status as a consumer application, not something that you'd want to use professionally. considering your status as a new member of this forum, i think it's reasonable to question your motives for bashing the womble tools... especially when you can't even prove to us that videoredo is fully hdv-compatible. have you ever edited an hdv file with videoredo, then exported it back out to hdv tape?

December 15th, 2005, 09:40 PM	#11
Tom Roper Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 1,891	I've used Womble MPEG Video Wizard for about two years now. It's always had bugs, glitches or some issue, and a bunch of revisions to fix them. That said, I think they got it right on the last upgrade. It works properly. But I don't think they claim compliance with the HDV specs, rather they just state support for m2t transport streams. I think that's an important distinction because not being able to upload to HDV tape may have more to do with insuring that HDV cams and decks do not become the tools for hackers with copyrighted HDTV material. As far as I have been able to determine, the Womble generated streams are compatible with playback on computers and network media players like the AVeL Linkplayer2.

December 16th, 2005, 05:57 AM	#12
Richard Firnges Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 45	At the moment I do some experiments with the newest version of cuttermaran (Freeware). First I took HDTVtoMPEG2 to convert the transport - stream into a MPEG stream. This file can be demuxt with TMPEG Encoder. The elementary streams can be cut (at any frame) and merged with cuttermaran. So far it works. The last steps multiplexing and creating a .ts file - well so far I didnt had the time to try it out. Maybe muxing in TMPEG and converting with HDTVtoMPEG2 will work. If it works it out it will be a nice way to do "smaller repairs or modifications" on finished HDV - projects without qualtity losses where the intermediate files are no longer existent. Greetings Richard

December 16th, 2005, 12:47 PM	#13
Dan Euritt Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 1,132	i was a pc network admin for 10 years, so i can guarantee you that all software is released with bugs, gliches, and revisions... the biggest software companies in the world have to balance budgets and deadlines, so premature releasing of software is normal... and in fact, it's typical for the end user to be part of the bug fixing process these days. i have worked with womble software practically since it first came out, and none of the bug fixes that i have seen were serious; it's largely been upgrades, and tweaks for obscure issues that most people never even notice, as you can see for yourself by looking at the documentation on their website. womble does not get paid to protect hdv copyrights, so that is not a factor... if anything, full hdv compatibility is something that you all need to request from womble... if they get enuf requests, i'd imagine that it will be included, barring any hdv licensing issues. so far we have not seen any evidence to suggest that videoredo creates hdv files, so the hunt continues.