WMV-HD Help! at DVinfo.net

Savan Patel · September 6th, 2005, 07:07 AM

I've been reading all posts on dvinfo.net regarding exporting from premiere pro 1.5.1 to WMV-HD.

I am using the HDR-HC1 European version (50fps), and have been trying to export footage to WMVHD with significant issues.

I have my computer VGA connection outputing to my LCD screen at 1280*768 (max permitted by my LCD pc connection). I encode the files to 720 25p in the premiere pro WMV exporter, and on the pre-encoding option, I select deinterlace (progressive none). So far I have used variable bit rate for video (min 5000 kbps). The rest of my settings are as Steven Gotz in the post (link below).

Once the movie has rendered, where the video is on a static image, it looks great. Where the image is panning, it looks terrible! The image has lines everywhere when panning.

Having read this one of Stevens posts in particular (below) is it best to use constant bit rate (8000 kbps) and "allow interlaced processing"? Should I not have "deinterlace" as a pre-encoding option?

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...&highlight=WMV

My pc is a 3 GHz HT P4, 2GB Ram and 1TB worth of hard drives at 7200rpm. I would have hoped this would be powerful enough.

Is this a standard problem when having deinterlaced and panning? Is DVFilm Maker a better tool to deinterlace with?

Any help is much appreciated.

Giroud Francois · September 6th, 2005, 03:33 PM

seems to be an interlace problem.
So basically you are starting from 1080i and wants to go to 720p.
you should not try to do all at the same time.
first convert from 1080i to 720p into a new avi.
check result , then encode to wmv.
anyway vmw is a computer format, and computer does not like interlaced video.

Luis Otero · September 6th, 2005, 06:00 PM

I agree, you need to deinterlace BEFORE doing the encoding. Also, use the WMV encoder (the stand-alone version that can be downloaded from Microsoft for free) not through Premiere Pro. I have used both methods before and the flexibility offered by the stand-alone encoder is substancially more effective and user friendly; you can even see the encoding frame by frame throughout the process. I always start from raw 720P since computer do not like interlaced material.

Good luck, and if you need more information do not hesitate to ask again for more help.

Luis

Savan Patel · September 7th, 2005, 07:32 AM

Thank you very much for the help.

I'm having a little problem deinterlacing prior to export. I'm reasonably new at this but am hoping to get it sorted out before the arrival of our first baby in 4 weeks!!

I've been told that deinterlacing on the timeline is the way to go, but I'm not sure of the steps.

I've also got ProCoder2, and I was thinking of using the adaptive deinterlacing option that this offers when exporting to WMVHD when using this plug-in in adobe premiere pro 1.5.1.

Do you think the option with Procoder is worthwhile or will it be equally poor if I try and do this all as one step like I did before?

Would you still recommend a two step process? ie. deinterlace on the timeline. If so, how do I do this?

Apologies for the numerous questions.

Savan

Kevin Shaw · September 7th, 2005, 07:36 AM

Savan: I've used Procoder Express to encode directly from a 1080i timeline (Edius software) to 720p WMV output and it works fine. You can see a sample result of this process at the following link:

http://www.videomem.com/hdv/yosemite_720p.wmv

Note: this file may take a while to download even on a fast connection.

Luis Otero · September 7th, 2005, 07:45 AM

Hello again,

Premiere is not a good deinterlacer. When I need to deinterlace footage I use DVFilmMaker, which support HDV too. In my opinion is the best on the street for the price tag. You can get it from www.dvfilm.com; it is really inexpensive for what you are getting. Also, if you shoot it 30i, it will do a great downconversion to 24P! You can download it and try it before committing to it. It also has other functions that you may like too.

Another alternate way is Adobe AfterEffect, which I have been told to do excellent job if you have it installed. If do not have it, DVFilmMaker is the way to go...

By the way, congratulations on your baby to come! That will be the footage you will treasure the most in your future.

Luis

Savan Patel · September 7th, 2005, 08:31 AM

Thanks Guys

Luis - I've been looking at DVFilm Maker too, but I thought I'd better try Procoder2 which I have first to see if it does the trick. I agree that the cost of DVFilm Maker is very reasonable. Thanks for your best wishes for our forthcoming little arrival. I'm a part time pro photographer, so I've got the photos covered, but I want to become very proficient at video capture and editing too as I think these moments will be priceless and I'd love to capture them well. I hope you don't mind if I have more questions for you all as I try to improve in this field.

Kevin - thanks for the link. I'll try it now. Thankfully my work connection lets me download it very fast!

Thanks again.

Christopher Lefchik · September 7th, 2005, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savan Patel

on the pre-encoding option, I select deinterlace (progressive none).

This is your problem right here. "De-Interlacing: None (Progressive)" does not deinterlace your footage. Try scrubbing the Adobe Media Encoder filter preview window to a frame with a good bit of action, and you will see the comb effect you mentioned. You need to select either "Upper" or "Lower" to properly deinterlace your footage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis Otero

I agree, you need to deinterlace BEFORE doing the encoding.

The deinterlace filter Savan is referring to in the Adobe Media Encoder is applied before encoding. It is a Pre Encoding task. The setting is just incorrect, as I explained above.

Savan Patel · September 7th, 2005, 10:20 AM

Thanks Christopher - I'll give that a go.

But a quick question - if i select upper or lower, it'll deinterlace the whole clip ie scrap 50% of data right? Would the Procoder adaptive deinterlacer be a better option as it would only deinterlace where frames show movement (I think!), thereby retaining better levels of detail where there is little motion?

Anyway, I'll try both, but I thought I'd ask.

Dan Euritt · September 7th, 2005, 10:32 AM

savan, wmvhd supports interlaced encoding... the ms website has some video clips on how to encode it with the free windows media encoder.

it might be worth exploring if your end goal is to display the footage on a high-rez big screen video monitor, perhaps played back from a laptop or computer.

Christopher Lefchik · September 7th, 2005, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savan Patel

if i select upper or lower, it'll deinterlace the whole clip ie scrap 50% of data right? Would the Procoder adaptive deinterlacer be a better option

Yes, I believe you will lose half of your resolution using the Adobe Media Encoder's De-interlace filter. The Procoder deinterlace filter would probably be better (and, of course, extra $$).

As Dan mentioned, you can encode interlaced Windows Media HD using Windows Media Encoder. You'd have to go through an extra step to output a file to run through Windows Media Encoder, but at least it is a free solution.

Savan Patel · September 8th, 2005, 03:18 AM

My setup at home means I am outputting to a 32" high def LCD screen (720p) from my computer. I think this means that encoding interlaced content would not be appropriate as the screen is progressive.

I tried setting the WMV-HD encoder to max yesterday i.e 10000 kbps constant, deinterlace lower field, max complexity (I've read on another thread that this produces better output), 100% qualty. The output looked good, but with the high bit rate the PC was jittery playing it as expected.

When I tried lower bit rates, I still had interlaced artefacts when playing panned sections of video.

I think I may give DVFilm Maker a try to see how this does. Any experiences on this anyone?

Thanks again

Luis Otero · September 8th, 2005, 07:00 AM

I think you are going to love the results with DVFilm Maker since you do not lose half of the resolution, which might be part of your disatisfaction with the image quality. Anyways, it is free to try. In terms of bit rate, I have used 8,000 kbps with excellent results (again, using the stand-alone encoder).

Good luck,

Luis

Dan Euritt · September 8th, 2005, 10:27 AM

i don't know that all lcd tv's are progressive only, but it would be worthwhile to encode an interlaced wmvhd test clip and see how the tv handles the interlaced situation... you might be surprised with how it looks.

the other thing to consider is that your current tv probably won't be the last big screen you'll have in your lifetime, so you may want to have a copy of the footage encoded as interlaced, for future use.

September 6th, 2005, 07:07 AM	#1
Savan Patel New Boot Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 6	WMV-HD Help! I've been reading all posts on dvinfo.net regarding exporting from premiere pro 1.5.1 to WMV-HD. I am using the HDR-HC1 European version (50fps), and have been trying to export footage to WMVHD with significant issues. I have my computer VGA connection outputing to my LCD screen at 1280*768 (max permitted by my LCD pc connection). I encode the files to 720 25p in the premiere pro WMV exporter, and on the pre-encoding option, I select deinterlace (progressive none). So far I have used variable bit rate for video (min 5000 kbps). The rest of my settings are as Steven Gotz in the post (link below). Once the movie has rendered, where the video is on a static image, it looks great. Where the image is panning, it looks terrible! The image has lines everywhere when panning. Having read this one of Stevens posts in particular (below) is it best to use constant bit rate (8000 kbps) and "allow interlaced processing"? Should I not have "deinterlace" as a pre-encoding option? http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...&highlight=WMV My pc is a 3 GHz HT P4, 2GB Ram and 1TB worth of hard drives at 7200rpm. I would have hoped this would be powerful enough. Is this a standard problem when having deinterlaced and panning? Is DVFilm Maker a better tool to deinterlace with? Any help is much appreciated.

September 6th, 2005, 06:00 PM	#3
Luis Otero Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Fort Dodge, IA Posts: 221	Stand-alone encoder I agree, you need to deinterlace BEFORE doing the encoding. Also, use the WMV encoder (the stand-alone version that can be downloaded from Microsoft for free) not through Premiere Pro. I have used both methods before and the flexibility offered by the stand-alone encoder is substancially more effective and user friendly; you can even see the encoding frame by frame throughout the process. I always start from raw 720P since computer do not like interlaced material. Good luck, and if you need more information do not hesitate to ask again for more help. Luis

September 7th, 2005, 07:32 AM	#4
Savan Patel New Boot Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 6	Thanks! - but... Thank you very much for the help. I'm having a little problem deinterlacing prior to export. I'm reasonably new at this but am hoping to get it sorted out before the arrival of our first baby in 4 weeks!! I've been told that deinterlacing on the timeline is the way to go, but I'm not sure of the steps. I've also got ProCoder2, and I was thinking of using the adaptive deinterlacing option that this offers when exporting to WMVHD when using this plug-in in adobe premiere pro 1.5.1. Do you think the option with Procoder is worthwhile or will it be equally poor if I try and do this all as one step like I did before? Would you still recommend a two step process? ie. deinterlace on the timeline. If so, how do I do this? Apologies for the numerous questions. Savan

September 7th, 2005, 08:31 AM	#7
Savan Patel New Boot Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 6	Thanks Again Thanks Guys Luis - I've been looking at DVFilm Maker too, but I thought I'd better try Procoder2 which I have first to see if it does the trick. I agree that the cost of DVFilm Maker is very reasonable. Thanks for your best wishes for our forthcoming little arrival. I'm a part time pro photographer, so I've got the photos covered, but I want to become very proficient at video capture and editing too as I think these moments will be priceless and I'd love to capture them well. I hope you don't mind if I have more questions for you all as I try to improve in this field. Kevin - thanks for the link. I'll try it now. Thankfully my work connection lets me download it very fast! Thanks again.

September 7th, 2005, 10:20 AM	#9
Savan Patel New Boot Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 6	Oh! Thanks Christopher - I'll give that a go. But a quick question - if i select upper or lower, it'll deinterlace the whole clip ie scrap 50% of data right? Would the Procoder adaptive deinterlacer be a better option as it would only deinterlace where frames show movement (I think!), thereby retaining better levels of detail where there is little motion? Anyway, I'll try both, but I thought I'd ask.

September 6th, 2005, 03:33 PM	#2
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	seems to be an interlace problem. So basically you are starting from 1080i and wants to go to 720p. you should not try to do all at the same time. first convert from 1080i to 720p into a new avi. check result , then encode to wmv. anyway vmw is a computer format, and computer does not like interlaced video.

September 7th, 2005, 07:36 AM	#5
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	Savan: I've used Procoder Express to encode directly from a 1080i timeline (Edius software) to 720p WMV output and it works fine. You can see a sample result of this process at the following link: http://www.videomem.com/hdv/yosemite_720p.wmv Note: this file may take a while to download even on a fast connection.

September 7th, 2005, 07:45 AM	#6
Luis Otero Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Fort Dodge, IA Posts: 221	Hello again, Premiere is not a good deinterlacer. When I need to deinterlace footage I use DVFilmMaker, which support HDV too. In my opinion is the best on the street for the price tag. You can get it from www.dvfilm.com; it is really inexpensive for what you are getting. Also, if you shoot it 30i, it will do a great downconversion to 24P! You can download it and try it before committing to it. It also has other functions that you may like too. Another alternate way is Adobe AfterEffect, which I have been told to do excellent job if you have it installed. If do not have it, DVFilmMaker is the way to go... By the way, congratulations on your baby to come! That will be the footage you will treasure the most in your future. Luis

September 7th, 2005, 10:32 AM	#10
Dan Euritt Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 1,132	savan, wmvhd supports interlaced encoding... the ms website has some video clips on how to encode it with the free windows media encoder. it might be worth exploring if your end goal is to display the footage on a high-rez big screen video monitor, perhaps played back from a laptop or computer.

September 8th, 2005, 03:18 AM	#12
Savan Patel New Boot Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 6	Nearly There! My setup at home means I am outputting to a 32" high def LCD screen (720p) from my computer. I think this means that encoding interlaced content would not be appropriate as the screen is progressive. I tried setting the WMV-HD encoder to max yesterday i.e 10000 kbps constant, deinterlace lower field, max complexity (I've read on another thread that this produces better output), 100% qualty. The output looked good, but with the high bit rate the PC was jittery playing it as expected. When I tried lower bit rates, I still had interlaced artefacts when playing panned sections of video. I think I may give DVFilm Maker a try to see how this does. Any experiences on this anyone? Thanks again

September 8th, 2005, 07:00 AM	#13
Luis Otero Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Fort Dodge, IA Posts: 221	I think you are going to love the results with DVFilm Maker since you do not lose half of the resolution, which might be part of your disatisfaction with the image quality. Anyways, it is free to try. In terms of bit rate, I have used 8,000 kbps with excellent results (again, using the stand-alone encoder). Good luck, Luis

September 8th, 2005, 10:27 AM	#14
Dan Euritt Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 1,132	i don't know that all lcd tv's are progressive only, but it would be worthwhile to encode an interlaced wmvhd test clip and see how the tv handles the interlaced situation... you might be surprised with how it looks. the other thing to consider is that your current tv probably won't be the last big screen you'll have in your lifetime, so you may want to have a copy of the footage encoded as interlaced, for future use.