Dual-Core CPU for HD/HDV NLE at DVinfo.net

Sean Livingstone · June 20th, 2005, 04:32 PM

Hey all, just wondering what your thoughts are on Dual-Core Processors for HD Editing. I'm looking at upgrading my PC but not know if I should hold off for Dual-Core or not? and also do you think companys like Canopus and Matrox well bring out PCI-e solutions in replace of PCI 64bit hardware for HD editing?

David Yuen · June 21st, 2005, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Livingstone

Hey all, just wondering what your thoughts are on Dual-Core Processors for HD Editing. I'm looking at upgrading my PC but not know if I should hold off for Dual-Core or not?

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,121266,00.asp

Yes, they're tempting--but here's why you should wait to buy one

Kevin Shaw · June 21st, 2005, 07:03 AM

That's rather misleading in relation to the purposes which concern us here in terms of video production. If you dig into the linked article with the actual performance results, you'll find this comment:

"The new system truly showed its mettle, however, in certain applications within WorldBench 5--namely the Roxio VideoWave Movie Creator, Windows Media Encoder, and our multitasking test. It was most impressive in the Windows Media Encoder test, where it shaved 2 minutes off the 3.4-GHz P4 system's time of 7 minutes, 41 seconds, and was 15 seconds faster than a top-scoring Athlon 64 FX-55-based PC (which earned a WorldBench 5 score of 125)."

I went to the Dell web site recently and priced out a complete dual-core computer for about $1300 with everything except a monitor, which seems like a pretty reasonable price compared to current dual-processor options. So if you're like me and running an older single-processor computer which needs to be upgraded to handle HDV effectively, the new dual core options are potentially appealing. My only gripe is that I can't yet simply buy a new Intel motherboard and dual-core processor for a few hundred dollars, because all the early shipments are going to companies like Dell. Oh well, maybe in a few more weeks...

Derek Serra · June 21st, 2005, 08:48 AM

Well, I've already taken a step in that direction by building my first AMD edit suite for HDV editing, based on a 939 motherboard, which will accept dual core AMD processors when they become generally available (and affordable) in 6 months or so. AMD seem to have produced a superior product to Intel in this regard if earlt tests and reviews are to be trusted. Current dual processor XEON systems are way to costly - and will outdated in a year as the current Intel MB's cannot accept DC processors. My current system has an affordable 3500+ processor on board which handles HDV without problems.
Once I install the 4500+ DC processor, it'll cook!

David Newman · June 21st, 2005, 09:32 AM

Everything is going multi-core so it is good to plan for it if you can. We recently modified a key component in Aspect and Prospect HD so look for 'N' CPUs rather just 2 CPUs. Today you can easily get dual proc with dual cores -- 4 real CPUs. We are currently finding the 2 to 4 CPU jump (dual Opteron 252 to dual 275) offers a 50% gain in performance without further optimization.

Kevin Shaw · June 21st, 2005, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Serra

My current system has an affordable 3500+ processor on board which handles HDV without problems.

Derek: what software are you using to edit HDV, and what sorts of editing effects can you do in real time before you have to start rendering to view your output? Also, have you tried encoding a finished HDV project to the WMV HD format, and if so how long did that take per minute of timeline?

Sean Livingstone · June 21st, 2005, 08:55 PM

How do you's think a Dual-Core processor would compare to a Dual Xeon system? considering that XEON are designed for server operations. Would be intergresting to see some rendering times and system specs for HDV.

David Newman · June 21st, 2005, 08:59 PM

All the dual core offerings (AMD and Intel) are much faster than any single core Xeon (in dual config.) Seriously. We have AMD Opteron 275s and an Intel Pentium D Extreme -- both leave Xeon way behind.

Sean Livingstone · June 21st, 2005, 09:43 PM

True but it seems that the Video Industry is still set on Xeon as a standard for NLE systems for HDV, well that is everything I have read anyway, well the major vendors change to DC systems or stay with Xeon?

David Newman · June 21st, 2005, 10:11 PM

Vendors do have there habits, but technology changes fast, typical faster than habits. As for standards and the video industry, Open HD is the new PC standard (as proposed by Adobe, Intel, HP, Dell, Microsoft and Sony.) Here you see the specs for the various Open HD systems at http://www.openhd.org/certified_solutions/. The real-time compressed HD solution is AMD Opteron based (so the industry doesn't always recommend Xeon.) Yes that system is a Prospect HD solution. :)

Kevin Shaw · June 21st, 2005, 10:15 PM

David: are you sure about that comparison between one dual-core processor and two single-core processors? My understanding was that one dual-core probably shouldn't outperform two single cores, but if your experience says otherwise I guess I can't argue with that. Just wanted to make sure you're saying what it sounds like you're saying...

David Newman · June 21st, 2005, 10:30 PM

I don't want to beat up on Xeon too much -- but yes that is what I'm saying. For example: the current Pentium D Extreme will easily out perform the dual Xeon systems I have tested. The issue is a modern memory architecture. The Intel architecture is getting a lot better, but the Xeon is still on an older architecture.

Sean Livingstone · June 21st, 2005, 10:37 PM

So you have been able to compare a DC and DP-xeon system david?

David Newman · June 21st, 2005, 10:44 PM

Yes. That was the comparision I was referring to.

Sean Livingstone · June 21st, 2005, 11:01 PM

I guess the next thing would be the change from PCI-X to PCI-E, what platform where you using on the DC system?

June 20th, 2005, 04:32 PM	#1
Sean Livingstone Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 53	Dual-Core CPU for HD/HDV NLE Hey all, just wondering what your thoughts are on Dual-Core Processors for HD Editing. I'm looking at upgrading my PC but not know if I should hold off for Dual-Core or not? and also do you think companys like Canopus and Matrox well bring out PCI-e solutions in replace of PCI 64bit hardware for HD editing?

June 21st, 2005, 08:48 AM	#4
Derek Serra Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cape Town, South Africa Posts: 76	Well, I've already taken a step in that direction by building my first AMD edit suite for HDV editing, based on a 939 motherboard, which will accept dual core AMD processors when they become generally available (and affordable) in 6 months or so. AMD seem to have produced a superior product to Intel in this regard if earlt tests and reviews are to be trusted. Current dual processor XEON systems are way to costly - and will outdated in a year as the current Intel MB's cannot accept DC processors. My current system has an affordable 3500+ processor on board which handles HDV without problems. Once I install the 4500+ DC processor, it'll cook! __________________ Derek Antonio Serra Indie Filmmaker www.indv.co.za

June 21st, 2005, 09:32 AM	#5
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Everything is going multi-core so it is good to plan for it if you can. We recently modified a key component in Aspect and Prospect HD so look for 'N' CPUs rather just 2 CPUs. Today you can easily get dual proc with dual cores -- 4 real CPUs. We are currently finding the 2 to 4 CPU jump (dual Opteron 252 to dual 275) offers a 50% gain in performance without further optimization. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

June 21st, 2005, 08:59 PM	#8
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	All the dual core offerings (AMD and Intel) are much faster than any single core Xeon (in dual config.) Seriously. We have AMD Opteron 275s and an Intel Pentium D Extreme -- both leave Xeon way behind. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

June 21st, 2005, 10:11 PM	#10
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Vendors do have there habits, but technology changes fast, typical faster than habits. As for standards and the video industry, Open HD is the new PC standard (as proposed by Adobe, Intel, HP, Dell, Microsoft and Sony.) Here you see the specs for the various Open HD systems at http://www.openhd.org/certified_solutions/. The real-time compressed HD solution is AMD Opteron based (so the industry doesn't always recommend Xeon.) Yes that system is a Prospect HD solution. :) __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

June 21st, 2005, 07:03 AM	#3
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	That's rather misleading in relation to the purposes which concern us here in terms of video production. If you dig into the linked article with the actual performance results, you'll find this comment: "The new system truly showed its mettle, however, in certain applications within WorldBench 5--namely the Roxio VideoWave Movie Creator, Windows Media Encoder, and our multitasking test. It was most impressive in the Windows Media Encoder test, where it shaved 2 minutes off the 3.4-GHz P4 system's time of 7 minutes, 41 seconds, and was 15 seconds faster than a top-scoring Athlon 64 FX-55-based PC (which earned a WorldBench 5 score of 125)." I went to the Dell web site recently and priced out a complete dual-core computer for about $1300 with everything except a monitor, which seems like a pretty reasonable price compared to current dual-processor options. So if you're like me and running an older single-processor computer which needs to be upgraded to handle HDV effectively, the new dual core options are potentially appealing. My only gripe is that I can't yet simply buy a new Intel motherboard and dual-core processor for a few hundred dollars, because all the early shipments are going to companies like Dell. Oh well, maybe in a few more weeks...

June 21st, 2005, 08:55 PM	#7
Sean Livingstone Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 53	How do you's think a Dual-Core processor would compare to a Dual Xeon system? considering that XEON are designed for server operations. Would be intergresting to see some rendering times and system specs for HDV.

June 21st, 2005, 09:43 PM	#9
Sean Livingstone Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 53	True but it seems that the Video Industry is still set on Xeon as a standard for NLE systems for HDV, well that is everything I have read anyway, well the major vendors change to DC systems or stay with Xeon?

June 21st, 2005, 10:15 PM	#11
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	David: are you sure about that comparison between one dual-core processor and two single-core processors? My understanding was that one dual-core probably shouldn't outperform two single cores, but if your experience says otherwise I guess I can't argue with that. Just wanted to make sure you're saying what it sounds like you're saying...

June 21st, 2005, 10:30 PM	#12
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	I don't want to beat up on Xeon too much -- but yes that is what I'm saying. For example: the current Pentium D Extreme will easily out perform the dual Xeon systems I have tested. The issue is a modern memory architecture. The Intel architecture is getting a lot better, but the Xeon is still on an older architecture. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

June 21st, 2005, 10:37 PM	#13
Sean Livingstone Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 53	So you have been able to compare a DC and DP-xeon system david?

June 21st, 2005, 10:44 PM	#14
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Yes. That was the comparision I was referring to. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

June 21st, 2005, 11:01 PM	#15
Sean Livingstone Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 53	I guess the next thing would be the change from PCI-X to PCI-E, what platform where you using on the DC system?