Can you downcovert to sd without compressing the pic? at DVinfo.net

Paul Cascio · February 28th, 2005, 09:55 AM

Do all capture utilities compressor a 16:9 image rather than simply cropping it?

I want to capture HDV footage from my FX1, but edit and output as SD for now. When I capture (Premiere Pro) the image is compressed to fit into a 4:3 space. I would rather simply corp from each side. Is this possible? How?

Sean M Lee · February 28th, 2005, 11:28 AM

Paul,
in the manual it talks about shooting 4:3 stuff with the cam, but I think that was stictly for NTSC stuff, not HD. Your request sounds simple, but I bet it will not be simple (if possible at all).

Steven White · February 28th, 2005, 11:58 AM

The "best" solution available to you is to capture the HDV and of course crop and downsample in post.

However, if your aim is to use the DV-out, then to crop to 4:3 manually, what you'll have to do is output the 16:9 anamorphic DV footage (i.e., 720x480 PA = 1.2) by selecting a "16:9 TV" as opposed to a "4:3" one in the output settings. This will use all of the DV bandwidth to store the 16:9 image, as opposed to producing the letterboxed 4:3 image you'll see on a 4:3 TV.

You can edit this as a widescreen DV project and crop it however pleases you. (Though personally, I'd just stay 16:9 and output to an anamorphic DVD).

There are any number of ways to crop to 4:3 from a 16:9 DV source, but those depend on your software.

Graham Hickling · February 28th, 2005, 11:59 AM

If you transfer your HD footage via firewire, as a 'transport stream', then it will retain its original size and aspect ratio (i.e. 1080i, 16:9). Then you can crop or resize it as you like to end up with SD.

At present, with Premiere Pro, you'll need a third party plugin (e.g. Mainconcept or Cineform) to transfer this way. Update 1.5.1 will add this ability to PPro itself.

I say "transfer" deliberately, because it is just transfer of a digital file, rather than "capturing" of an analogue signal via an A-D convertor.

Alternatively, you could capture the analogue HD component output of the camera, but you would need a specialized hardware card to do it.

Paul Cascio · February 28th, 2005, 12:54 PM

I just want to work in SD for now because my computer is too slow to edit HD. I don't mind a 16:9 format, but I don't want it squeezed into 4:3. Is this impossible?

Steve Crisdale · February 28th, 2005, 02:22 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Paul Cascio : I just want to work in SD for now because my computer is too slow to edit HD. I don't mind a 16:9 format, but I don't want it squeezed into 4:3. Is this impossible? -->>>

Why not just bight the bullet, and get a fast enough computer?
You've no doubt invested in the FX/Z-1 to obtain the best results possible to the 'average' joe from a commercially available camcorder....so why skimp on the back-up equipment?
Besides, a 'puter with enough grunt to tackle HD is likely going to be one of the cheaper elements you'll likely get to expand your HD equipment arsenal.....

Steven White · February 28th, 2005, 02:40 PM

>>I don't mind a 16:9 format, but I don't want it squeezed into 4:3. Is this impossible?<<

As I said earlier - changing your "TV type" changes how the camera outputs the DV footage.

With "TV type" as 4:3, the camera letterboxes the 16:9 image into a 4:3 frame. 1440x1080 -> 720x480 PA = 0.9, i.e., a 720x360 image.

With "TV type" as 16:9 the camera downconverts the 1440x1080 HDV to 720x480 PA = 1.2.

Randy Donato · March 1st, 2005, 09:43 AM

"The "best" solution available to you is to capture the HDV and of course crop and downsample in post"
I couldn't agree more with the capture of HDV part but not the down sample....leave that resolution there and get a tool that will use it. I wanted to share how I use full res HDV to make Sd dvds. I capture in 1440x1080i and use Canopus Edius. When you use a D1 16:9 project setting Edius auto sizes the HDV to fit(no resolution is lost and it handles the different pixel aspect of the HDV and D1). The layout tool is really nice and here is a SS of what it does http://www.rdonato.com/D1.jpg Notice it scales down the HDV adjusting for the pixel aspect difference. If you make the source 100% you can pan/zoom it. The resolution is all there at all times for use and it just scales it to fit without throwing it out....it looks really great when you encode it to mpeg....since the resolution is there the encodes take longer but more is better in this game right...It works if 4:3 is what you want to do as well.

February 28th, 2005, 09:55 AM	#1
Paul Cascio Trustee Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bristol, CT (Home of EPSN) Posts: 1,192	Can you downcovert to sd without compressing the pic? Do all capture utilities compressor a 16:9 image rather than simply cropping it? I want to capture HDV footage from my FX1, but edit and output as SD for now. When I capture (Premiere Pro) the image is compressed to fit into a 4:3 space. I would rather simply corp from each side. Is this possible? How? __________________ Paul Cascio www.pictureframingschool.com

February 28th, 2005, 12:54 PM	#5
Paul Cascio Trustee Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bristol, CT (Home of EPSN) Posts: 1,192	I just want to work in SD for now because my computer is too slow to edit HD. I don't mind a 16:9 format, but I don't want it squeezed into 4:3. Is this impossible? __________________ Paul Cascio www.pictureframingschool.com

February 28th, 2005, 11:28 AM	#2
Sean M Lee Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indy Posts: 160	Paul, in the manual it talks about shooting 4:3 stuff with the cam, but I think that was stictly for NTSC stuff, not HD. Your request sounds simple, but I bet it will not be simple (if possible at all).

February 28th, 2005, 11:58 AM	#3
Steven White Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 547	The "best" solution available to you is to capture the HDV and of course crop and downsample in post. However, if your aim is to use the DV-out, then to crop to 4:3 manually, what you'll have to do is output the 16:9 anamorphic DV footage (i.e., 720x480 PA = 1.2) by selecting a "16:9 TV" as opposed to a "4:3" one in the output settings. This will use all of the DV bandwidth to store the 16:9 image, as opposed to producing the letterboxed 4:3 image you'll see on a 4:3 TV. You can edit this as a widescreen DV project and crop it however pleases you. (Though personally, I'd just stay 16:9 and output to an anamorphic DVD). There are any number of ways to crop to 4:3 from a 16:9 DV source, but those depend on your software.

February 28th, 2005, 11:59 AM	#4
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	If you transfer your HD footage via firewire, as a 'transport stream', then it will retain its original size and aspect ratio (i.e. 1080i, 16:9). Then you can crop or resize it as you like to end up with SD. At present, with Premiere Pro, you'll need a third party plugin (e.g. Mainconcept or Cineform) to transfer this way. Update 1.5.1 will add this ability to PPro itself. I say "transfer" deliberately, because it is just transfer of a digital file, rather than "capturing" of an analogue signal via an A-D convertor. Alternatively, you could capture the analogue HD component output of the camera, but you would need a specialized hardware card to do it.

February 28th, 2005, 02:22 PM	#6
Steve Crisdale Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Katoomba NSW Australia Posts: 635	<<<-- Originally posted by Paul Cascio : I just want to work in SD for now because my computer is too slow to edit HD. I don't mind a 16:9 format, but I don't want it squeezed into 4:3. Is this impossible? -->>> Why not just bight the bullet, and get a fast enough computer? You've no doubt invested in the FX/Z-1 to obtain the best results possible to the 'average' joe from a commercially available camcorder....so why skimp on the back-up equipment? Besides, a 'puter with enough grunt to tackle HD is likely going to be one of the cheaper elements you'll likely get to expand your HD equipment arsenal.....

February 28th, 2005, 02:40 PM	#7
Steven White Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 547	>>I don't mind a 16:9 format, but I don't want it squeezed into 4:3. Is this impossible?<< As I said earlier - changing your "TV type" changes how the camera outputs the DV footage. With "TV type" as 4:3, the camera letterboxes the 16:9 image into a 4:3 frame. 1440x1080 -> 720x480 PA = 0.9, i.e., a 720x360 image. With "TV type" as 16:9 the camera downconverts the 1440x1080 HDV to 720x480 PA = 1.2.

March 1st, 2005, 09:43 AM	#8
Randy Donato Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 138	"The "best" solution available to you is to capture the HDV and of course crop and downsample in post" I couldn't agree more with the capture of HDV part but not the down sample....leave that resolution there and get a tool that will use it. I wanted to share how I use full res HDV to make Sd dvds. I capture in 1440x1080i and use Canopus Edius. When you use a D1 16:9 project setting Edius auto sizes the HDV to fit(no resolution is lost and it handles the different pixel aspect of the HDV and D1). The layout tool is really nice and here is a SS of what it does http://www.rdonato.com/D1.jpg Notice it scales down the HDV adjusting for the pixel aspect difference. If you make the source 100% you can pan/zoom it. The resolution is all there at all times for use and it just scales it to fit without throwing it out....it looks really great when you encode it to mpeg....since the resolution is there the encodes take longer but more is better in this game right...It works if 4:3 is what you want to do as well.