FCP HD vs. FCHDE vs. iMovie HD at DVinfo.net

Heath McKnight · January 11th, 2005, 11:53 PM

Apple has put up a comparison chart, similar to what I've seen on Avid. (And speaking of Avid, their photos for Avid XPress Pro HD has what looks like the HD10, but HDV support is coming later.) You can find it here:

http://www.apple.com/finalcut/

What I think is interesting is that Final Cut Pro says you need 3rd party software to run HDV...Which leads me to once again speculate (I hate that) that Apple is doing something different (no pun intended) with FCP and HDV. Something more advanced, maybe?

heath

Todd Siechen · January 12th, 2005, 04:34 AM

Im with you on this so I gotta believe its just a matter of time before FCP won't need third party software in order to fully support HDV. My assumption is that Apple has positioned FCP for the higher end uncompressed HD and made the false assumption that HDV is best served with FCExpress/iMovie for the lower end crowd. Seems weird I know so I hope soon they will offer an update that includes new support for HDV.

There is an interesting blurb on the FCP page (bottom right column) about Apple working on an HD format with Panasonic and another one about "Apple planning support for JVC's HDV format" - nothing about Sony curiously as Steve Jobs apparently made a glowing comment about this camera at MacWorld and even had a Sony rep there to talk about it. There is even pictures of the Sony HDR-FX1 camcorder all over Apples web page for iMovie and FCExpress.

Time will tell.

Heath McKnight · January 12th, 2005, 09:39 AM

That blurb on FCP is from the days at NAB. They need to update it and also tell us when FCP support is coming.

heath

Heath McKnight · January 12th, 2005, 11:38 PM

Here's a full look at FCEHD.

From another page, I saw this and want to quote it:

"Simply connect your FireWire-equipped HDV or DV camcorder to your Mac and capture video directly to the Browser window. Then organize your clips with ease."

Yes, plug-and-play, so to speak. That's what many of us want.

heath

Christopher C. Murphy · January 13th, 2005, 06:25 AM

Over at www.hdforindies.com he's saying that HDV will be done using the "Apple Intermediate Codec"? Anyone know what that is?

Kevin Shaw · January 13th, 2005, 08:46 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Christopher C. Murphy : Over at www.hdforindies.com he's saying that HDV will be done using the "Apple Intermediate Codec"? Anyone know what that is? -->>>

So far that's the only detailed description I've seen of how Apple is actually dealing with HDV for their current solutions. Apparently they're converting HDV to a compressed I-frame codec during the capture process, in a manner similar to what Cineform has been doing on PCs for over a year now. So it's not direct "native" HDV editing and you can't output directly from the timeline back to the camera, but that's okay considering it makes the editing process much more efficient. We're just all going to have to get used to spending some time rendering HDV projects to the desired output format at the end of a project, which may take quite a while depending on what format you choose.

Heath McKnight · January 13th, 2005, 11:05 AM

To clarify, we can't go HDV back to cameras yet? Or can we?

heath

Murad Toor · January 14th, 2005, 04:58 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : To clarify, we can't go HDV back to cameras yet? Or can we?

heath -->>>

I'm pretty sure I recall Jobs saying you can record HDV back to the camera.

Dylan Pank · January 14th, 2005, 07:29 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : To clarify, we can't go HDV back to cameras yet? Or can we?

heath -->>>

from the FCE-HD specs page

output

Print to Video command for recording a sequence or clip back to DV or HDV device.

.. which would imply yes you can, though maybe it needs to be rendered as mpeg2 first.

Dylan Pank · January 14th, 2005, 11:09 AM

I should add I can't see printing back to tape mentioned on the iMovie pages at all.

It would seem that FCE-HD may support print-to-HDV tape while iMovie does not.

Hayden Rivers · January 14th, 2005, 01:05 PM

Jobs did say you can send the project back out to the camera.

I still don't understand why they would include HDV editing in Final Cut Express and not the 3x more expensive Final Cut Pro.

Kevin Shaw · January 14th, 2005, 01:25 PM

If the "hdforindies" report is correct, you cannot go straight from the editing timeline back to HDV tape: you must first render back to the native HDV format and then output to the camera. So Jobs is correct that Apple supports output back to tape, but it's not real-time output.

Stephen Schleicher · January 14th, 2005, 03:17 PM

It is simple why you don't have HDV support on FCP yet. It isn't April 16th yet. FCE and iMovie are both consumer programs. MacWorld is a consumer expo. NAB is pro, and that is when we will see FCP5.0 with HDV support along with HD support for all of the other HD codecs and format. I would also bet that we see Motion as an included application with FCP5.0.

Just my thoughts...
Cheers

January 11th, 2005, 11:53 PM	#1
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	FCP HD vs. FCHDE vs. iMovie HD Apple has put up a comparison chart, similar to what I've seen on Avid. (And speaking of Avid, their photos for Avid XPress Pro HD has what looks like the HD10, but HDV support is coming later.) You can find it here: http://www.apple.com/finalcut/ What I think is interesting is that Final Cut Pro says you need 3rd party software to run HDV...Which leads me to once again speculate (I hate that) that Apple is doing something different (no pun intended) with FCP and HDV. Something more advanced, maybe? heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 12th, 2005, 04:34 AM	#2
Todd Siechen Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 66	Im with you on this so I gotta believe its just a matter of time before FCP won't need third party software in order to fully support HDV. My assumption is that Apple has positioned FCP for the higher end uncompressed HD and made the false assumption that HDV is best served with FCExpress/iMovie for the lower end crowd. Seems weird I know so I hope soon they will offer an update that includes new support for HDV. There is an interesting blurb on the FCP page (bottom right column) about Apple working on an HD format with Panasonic and another one about "Apple planning support for JVC's HDV format" - nothing about Sony curiously as Steve Jobs apparently made a glowing comment about this camera at MacWorld and even had a Sony rep there to talk about it. There is even pictures of the Sony HDR-FX1 camcorder all over Apples web page for iMovie and FCExpress. Time will tell. __________________ todd siechen dvdthemepak.com realeyz.com

January 12th, 2005, 09:39 AM	#3
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	That blurb on FCP is from the days at NAB. They need to update it and also tell us when FCP support is coming. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 12th, 2005, 11:38 PM	#4
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Here's a full look at FCEHD. From another page, I saw this and want to quote it: "Simply connect your FireWire-equipped HDV or DV camcorder to your Mac and capture video directly to the Browser window. Then organize your clips with ease." Yes, plug-and-play, so to speak. That's what many of us want. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 13th, 2005, 06:25 AM	#5
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	Over at www.hdforindies.com he's saying that HDV will be done using the "Apple Intermediate Codec"? Anyone know what that is? __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

January 13th, 2005, 08:46 AM	#6
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	<<<-- Originally posted by Christopher C. Murphy : Over at www.hdforindies.com he's saying that HDV will be done using the "Apple Intermediate Codec"? Anyone know what that is? -->>> So far that's the only detailed description I've seen of how Apple is actually dealing with HDV for their current solutions. Apparently they're converting HDV to a compressed I-frame codec during the capture process, in a manner similar to what Cineform has been doing on PCs for over a year now. So it's not direct "native" HDV editing and you can't output directly from the timeline back to the camera, but that's okay considering it makes the editing process much more efficient. We're just all going to have to get used to spending some time rendering HDV projects to the desired output format at the end of a project, which may take quite a while depending on what format you choose.

January 13th, 2005, 11:05 AM	#7
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	To clarify, we can't go HDV back to cameras yet? Or can we? heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 14th, 2005, 04:58 AM	#8
Murad Toor Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 125	<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : To clarify, we can't go HDV back to cameras yet? Or can we? heath -->>> I'm pretty sure I recall Jobs saying you can record HDV back to the camera.

January 14th, 2005, 07:29 AM	#9
Dylan Pank Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Portsmouth, UK Posts: 611	<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : To clarify, we can't go HDV back to cameras yet? Or can we? heath -->>> from the FCE-HD specs page output Print to Video command for recording a sequence or clip back to DV or HDV device. .. which would imply yes you can, though maybe it needs to be rendered as mpeg2 first.

January 14th, 2005, 11:09 AM	#10
Dylan Pank Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Portsmouth, UK Posts: 611	I should add I can't see printing back to tape mentioned on the iMovie pages at all. It would seem that FCE-HD may support print-to-HDV tape while iMovie does not.

January 14th, 2005, 01:05 PM	#11
Hayden Rivers Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 53	Jobs did say you can send the project back out to the camera. I still don't understand why they would include HDV editing in Final Cut Express and not the 3x more expensive Final Cut Pro.

January 14th, 2005, 01:25 PM	#12
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	If the "hdforindies" report is correct, you cannot go straight from the editing timeline back to HDV tape: you must first render back to the native HDV format and then output to the camera. So Jobs is correct that Apple supports output back to tape, but it's not real-time output.

January 14th, 2005, 03:17 PM	#13
Stephen Schleicher Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Hays, KS Posts: 188	It is simple why you don't have HDV support on FCP yet. It isn't April 16th yet. FCE and iMovie are both consumer programs. MacWorld is a consumer expo. NAB is pro, and that is when we will see FCP5.0 with HDV support along with HD support for all of the other HD codecs and format. I would also bet that we see Motion as an included application with FCP5.0. Just my thoughts... Cheers __________________ Stephen Schleicher www.stephenschleicher.com