What do your clients need? at DVinfo.net

Jimmy McKenzie · December 29th, 2004, 03:46 PM

So I am going to switch to hdv.
What do I give me clients?
How is hdv currently delivered? Wedding clients? Dance workshops? Corporate intranet/internet files?

Rhett Allen · December 29th, 2004, 04:07 PM

Wouldn't those be questions one would normally answer "before" deciding to make such a drastic decision? If you have clients, you should probably ask them, but then again, if you don't already know what your clients want, you may be in SEVERE danger of losing them quickly to someone else who does.

Currently HDV ISN'T really being delivered. That's why the topic is "High Definition HDV: The Next Wave" with "NEXT" being the key word. No-one is really using it because there are only 2 cameras shooting it (neither one professional) and even fewer NLE's natively supporting the editing of it. I think it may have potential but it may take a little while before clients even ask about it. If they want HD, they are probably going to pay for HD.

Other than that, it's just video. You can deliver it however you want, with ALL the current methods applicable. (tape, DVD, web)

Kevin Shaw · December 29th, 2004, 06:43 PM

The best way to deliver output from an HDV camera today is to render it to the Windows Media format at 720p resolution and put that on a standard DVD-R or DVD+R disc. This can be played on most recent computers and one currently shipping consumer-priced DVD player, plus it should (hopefully) work on future HD DVD players. Another option is to render to the format used by JVC's "Digital VHS" players and output to one of those, but there are very few of them in use so it's not a particularly practical option.

Regarding HDV editing, there are currently at least five major editing programs with good support for the HDV format, which are as follows:

Adobe Premiere Pro with Cineform Aspect HD
Pinnacle Liquid Edition 6
Canopus Edius Pro 3
Sony Vegas 5
Ulead Media Studio Pro with HD plugin

Both Avid and Apple have also announced plans to support HDV sometime next year.

Jimmy McKenzie · December 30th, 2004, 07:56 AM

So for now, the SD WMV9 on a dvd disk is simply the video at 720p SD with no menus or navigation and non HDV playback?

Kevin Shaw · December 30th, 2004, 09:40 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Jimmy McKenzie : So for now, the SD WMV9 on a dvd disk is simply the video at 720p SD with no menus or navigation and non HDV playback? -->>>

That's partly right, but 720p is a legitimate HD format which can deliver near-HDV quality using Windows Media encoding at standard DVD data rates. So yes, you lose all the pretty menu options for now, but presumably we'll get that back when HD DVD players start shipping. I was in Costco last night and they were using WMV-HD to display high-definition content on various HDTVs, and it looked nice. I couldn't tell what they were using to play the content or what resolution it was at, but it looked better than SD video played on my HDTV at home.

Heath McKnight · December 30th, 2004, 11:43 AM

I would do some heavy research before jumping in. I just received a book by our own Douglas Spotted Eagle about HDV and what you need to know to make the transition and I'm going to review it for our site. So far, I really like it a lot. This may help you out greatly!

Hope this helps,

heath

Ben Buie · December 30th, 2004, 01:49 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Jimmy McKenzie : So for now, the SD WMV9 on a dvd disk is simply the video at 720p SD with no menus or navigation and non HDV playback? -->>>

Your HDV master can be encoded into a 9.2Mbps 720p WMVHD file that is basically identical in quality to the original. You can fit about an hour of content at that bitrate on a standard DVD+R or DVD-R. You can drop down as low as 5Mbps and get acceptable results.

The player someone else was referring to is the AVeL LinkPlayer 2 from IO-DATA, there is a review of it on my site.

There is at least one WMVHD DVD authoring package that uses XML for the menus, think it is made by Sonic.

Ben

Kevin Shaw · December 30th, 2004, 03:53 PM

<<<There is at least one WMVHD DVD authoring package that uses XML for the menus, think it is made by Sonic. >>>

If you made a DVD using this tool, how would you play it? Is there computer-based DVD playback software which would recognize these menus and be able to play a WMV-HD video file?

Heath McKnight · December 30th, 2004, 03:57 PM

I may be wrong, but last I heard you could only play back with a fast PC running Windows XP Pro and a monitor that supports a minimum of 1280 x720, but 1920 (or 1440)x1080 is good for the FX1. And has a Windows Media 9 HD player on it, too.

heath

Ben Buie · December 30th, 2004, 04:10 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Kevin Shaw : <<<There is at least one WMVHD DVD authoring package that uses XML for the menus, think it is made by Sonic. >>>

If you made a DVD using this tool, how would you play it? Is there computer-based DVD playback software which would recognize these menus and be able to play a WMV-HD video file? -->>>

The package I was referring to is:

http://www.sonic.com/products/dvdproducerhd/default.asp

Any computer (that is fast enough) running Windows Media Player 9 or higher can playback these DVDs with menus, etc.

Whether or not the AVEL LinkPlayer 2 can recognize the XML menus is unclear. I am pretty sure the LinkPlayer can handle XML, but a firmware upgrade would probably be required to actually recognize and navigate the XML on the HD DVD.

For now I'm happy just to provide the file on a DVD data disc, the LinkPlayer's built-in navigation system makes it easy to select and play the file.

Ben Buie · December 30th, 2004, 04:15 PM

Having said all of this, I can't find pricing on Sonic's DVD Producer HD, so most likely it is not available yet.

Your best bet is to go with a dual DVD deliverable, one DVD is the regular DVD-Video disc letterboxed, the other is a DVD data disc with the WMVHD file on it (and possibly other interesting files you want to provide as extras). That way you are providing additional value to the client while preserving compatability with the regular DVD.

Ben

Kevin Shaw · December 30th, 2004, 05:25 PM

<<< I can't find pricing on Sonic's DVD Producer HD, so most likely it is not available yet.>>>

I sent an email earlier today to a reseller listed on the Sonic web site to see if they can provide more info about this. My guess is that it's a ridiculously expensive product, but that we'll see much more affordable HD DVD authoring solutions fairly soon...and almost certainly by this time next year.

December 29th, 2004, 03:46 PM	#1
Jimmy McKenzie Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Waterloo Ontario Posts: 721	What do your clients need? So I am going to switch to hdv. What do I give me clients? How is hdv currently delivered? Wedding clients? Dance workshops? Corporate intranet/internet files?

December 30th, 2004, 11:43 AM	#6
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I would do some heavy research before jumping in. I just received a book by our own Douglas Spotted Eagle about HDV and what you need to know to make the transition and I'm going to review it for our site. So far, I really like it a lot. This may help you out greatly! Hope this helps, heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

December 30th, 2004, 01:49 PM	#7
Ben Buie Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 184	<<<-- Originally posted by Jimmy McKenzie : So for now, the SD WMV9 on a dvd disk is simply the video at 720p SD with no menus or navigation and non HDV playback? -->>> Your HDV master can be encoded into a 9.2Mbps 720p WMVHD file that is basically identical in quality to the original. You can fit about an hour of content at that bitrate on a standard DVD+R or DVD-R. You can drop down as low as 5Mbps and get acceptable results. The player someone else was referring to is the AVeL LinkPlayer 2 from IO-DATA, there is a review of it on my site. There is at least one WMVHD DVD authoring package that uses XML for the menus, think it is made by Sonic. Ben __________________ Ben Buie, Producer "On Our Way Up" - Shot Completely in HDV http://www.onourwayup.com HD Articles and Reviews at HDSource! http://hdsource.highlydef.com

December 30th, 2004, 03:57 PM	#9
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I may be wrong, but last I heard you could only play back with a fast PC running Windows XP Pro and a monitor that supports a minimum of 1280 x720, but 1920 (or 1440)x1080 is good for the FX1. And has a Windows Media 9 HD player on it, too. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

December 30th, 2004, 04:10 PM	#10
Ben Buie Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 184	<<<-- Originally posted by Kevin Shaw : <<<There is at least one WMVHD DVD authoring package that uses XML for the menus, think it is made by Sonic. >>> If you made a DVD using this tool, how would you play it? Is there computer-based DVD playback software which would recognize these menus and be able to play a WMV-HD video file? -->>> The package I was referring to is: http://www.sonic.com/products/dvdproducerhd/default.asp Any computer (that is fast enough) running Windows Media Player 9 or higher can playback these DVDs with menus, etc. Whether or not the AVEL LinkPlayer 2 can recognize the XML menus is unclear. I am pretty sure the LinkPlayer can handle XML, but a firmware upgrade would probably be required to actually recognize and navigate the XML on the HD DVD. For now I'm happy just to provide the file on a DVD data disc, the LinkPlayer's built-in navigation system makes it easy to select and play the file. __________________ Ben Buie, Producer "On Our Way Up" - Shot Completely in HDV http://www.onourwayup.com HD Articles and Reviews at HDSource! http://hdsource.highlydef.com

December 29th, 2004, 04:07 PM	#2
Rhett Allen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 607	Wouldn't those be questions one would normally answer "before" deciding to make such a drastic decision? If you have clients, you should probably ask them, but then again, if you don't already know what your clients want, you may be in SEVERE danger of losing them quickly to someone else who does. Currently HDV ISN'T really being delivered. That's why the topic is "High Definition HDV: The Next Wave" with "NEXT" being the key word. No-one is really using it because there are only 2 cameras shooting it (neither one professional) and even fewer NLE's natively supporting the editing of it. I think it may have potential but it may take a little while before clients even ask about it. If they want HD, they are probably going to pay for HD. Other than that, it's just video. You can deliver it however you want, with ALL the current methods applicable. (tape, DVD, web)

December 29th, 2004, 06:43 PM	#3
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	The best way to deliver output from an HDV camera today is to render it to the Windows Media format at 720p resolution and put that on a standard DVD-R or DVD+R disc. This can be played on most recent computers and one currently shipping consumer-priced DVD player, plus it should (hopefully) work on future HD DVD players. Another option is to render to the format used by JVC's "Digital VHS" players and output to one of those, but there are very few of them in use so it's not a particularly practical option. Regarding HDV editing, there are currently at least five major editing programs with good support for the HDV format, which are as follows: Adobe Premiere Pro with Cineform Aspect HD Pinnacle Liquid Edition 6 Canopus Edius Pro 3 Sony Vegas 5 Ulead Media Studio Pro with HD plugin Both Avid and Apple have also announced plans to support HDV sometime next year.

December 30th, 2004, 07:56 AM	#4
Jimmy McKenzie Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Waterloo Ontario Posts: 721	So for now, the SD WMV9 on a dvd disk is simply the video at 720p SD with no menus or navigation and non HDV playback?

December 30th, 2004, 09:40 AM	#5
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	<<<-- Originally posted by Jimmy McKenzie : So for now, the SD WMV9 on a dvd disk is simply the video at 720p SD with no menus or navigation and non HDV playback? -->>> That's partly right, but 720p is a legitimate HD format which can deliver near-HDV quality using Windows Media encoding at standard DVD data rates. So yes, you lose all the pretty menu options for now, but presumably we'll get that back when HD DVD players start shipping. I was in Costco last night and they were using WMV-HD to display high-definition content on various HDTVs, and it looked nice. I couldn't tell what they were using to play the content or what resolution it was at, but it looked better than SD video played on my HDTV at home.

December 30th, 2004, 03:53 PM	#8
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	<<<There is at least one WMVHD DVD authoring package that uses XML for the menus, think it is made by Sonic. >>> If you made a DVD using this tool, how would you play it? Is there computer-based DVD playback software which would recognize these menus and be able to play a WMV-HD video file?

December 30th, 2004, 04:15 PM	#11
Ben Buie Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 184	Having said all of this, I can't find pricing on Sonic's DVD Producer HD, so most likely it is not available yet. Your best bet is to go with a dual DVD deliverable, one DVD is the regular DVD-Video disc letterboxed, the other is a DVD data disc with the WMVHD file on it (and possibly other interesting files you want to provide as extras). That way you are providing additional value to the client while preserving compatability with the regular DVD. Ben __________________ Ben Buie, Producer "On Our Way Up" - Shot Completely in HDV http://www.onourwayup.com HD Articles and Reviews at HDSource! http://hdsource.highlydef.com

December 30th, 2004, 05:25 PM	#12
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	<<< I can't find pricing on Sonic's DVD Producer HD, so most likely it is not available yet.>>> I sent an email earlier today to a reseller listed on the Sonic web site to see if they can provide more info about this. My guess is that it's a ridiculously expensive product, but that we'll see much more affordable HD DVD authoring solutions fairly soon...and almost certainly by this time next year.