Cool, HUFFYUV is faster than uncompressed at DVinfo.net

Robert Silvers · December 13th, 2004, 05:14 PM

I was testing codecs with DVD size video:

HUFFYUV did 34fps
Uncompressed did 24fps
Aware Wavelet did 48fps

Pretty interesting. They can be used as intermediates for editing.

David Newman · December 13th, 2004, 05:45 PM

Uncompressed was likely bottlenecked by disk speed. Normally it would be the fastest given that it doesn't encode.

Graham Hickling · December 13th, 2004, 09:55 PM

Hi Robert,

What software have you decided to do your huffyuv encoding in? ( I was hoping someone would have some interesting suggestions in response to your earlier post.)

Robert Silvers · December 13th, 2004, 10:24 PM

I *wanted* to use DVD2AVI but it breaks up the files into 2Gb sections. This is dreadful and has not been a limit for 5 years now. It totally keeps me from swapping the files with the .m2t originals in Vegas.

So I am using VirtualDubMpeg now. I have one problem -- the Aware codec does not allow me to select interlace options from VirtualDub, but it does from DVD2AVI. I am not sure why but it 'sees' the video at startup as just 160x128 pixels so that is why it ghosts out the interlace button.

I did some more tests.

The Aware codec (and Cineform) SMOKES the Pic-wavelet in speed and allows for much larger file sizes, so I assume the Pic is meant for low (low) end video conferencing over a phone line or something.

Pic motion jpeg is not bad but their lossless jpeg generates much larger files than HUFFYUV and does so more slowly.

Anyway, Aware wavelets not only generates much smaller files than HUFFYUV, but also is faster and plays back more smoothly in Vegas. So I don't plan to use HUFFYUV for editing. The files are just too big, and you are talking to someone who has almost 4 TB of storage online.

ConnectHD seems like the best way to go because it combines steps and saves time over useing CapDVHS and VirtualDubMpeg, not to mention that it does all these steps without changing color space (people who think HUFFYUV is 100% 'lossless' are not factoring in the color conversion).

So give me a choice of ConnectHD or Aware's codec -- both of which seem to be fast and visually-lossless -- or HUFFYUV which is slower and makes files 6 times larger and is also (slightly) lossy (due to color conversion) -- well, I will go wavelet.

Graham Hickling · December 14th, 2004, 07:13 PM

Interesting. What's the current version of the Aware codec - I couldn't see any details about it on their site?

Robert Silvers · December 14th, 2004, 07:17 PM

Dunno, but they are not marketing it for this market.

Ken Hodson · January 2nd, 2005, 08:18 PM

What is the colour space of HuffYUV?

Anyway, anyone know anything about BitJazz SheerVideo™ Pro v2.0 codec? They promote it as being lossless with 1/2 the size as uncompressed and very high speed. Can do 4:4:2 or 4:4:4!
http://www.bitjazz.com/sheervideo/

Filip Kovcin · January 3rd, 2005, 07:07 PM

"<---- Interesting. What's the current version of the Aware codec - I couldn't see any details about it on their site?--->"

same impression...
maybe someone have an info about menitoned aware codec.
and link? i do not know nothing about it, and their site makes me confused... can someone clear it for me (us)?

thanks,

filip

Kyle Edwards · January 4th, 2005, 04:22 PM

I've tried converting video from the FX1 to both the Sheer and Aware codec and neither holds up. They seem paler and there are some macro blocks in high motion scenes.

Graham Hickling · January 4th, 2005, 09:37 PM

Slightly off-topic, but can anyone recommend a good way to check what color-space a particular avi file is in, and better still, what color-space conversions have taken place during a decode -> re-encode process.

For example, I'm interested in the best ways to convert PAL DV to NTSC DV, and 720p HDV to DV, using tools like VirtualDub and/or Avisynth2.0 and 2.5, and intermediate codecs like huffyuv or aware or simply uncompressed.

But when I start trying to figure out what these tools are actually doing to color-space my brain starts hurting....

Kyle Edwards · January 4th, 2005, 09:58 PM

The doom9 forums are a good place to start. You can search over there for alot of information about colour space conversions.

http://forum.doom9.org/

Graham Hickling · January 4th, 2005, 10:09 PM

Yeah - I watch Doom9 regularly.

I was kinda hoping there might be a tool that would actually report on the color-space, YUV etc of a particular avi file, or codec, that might in some cases be of unknown origin.

GSpot and Procoder both report the codec and 4cc code, which is half-way there ..... so I was wondering if there's another app that gives additional details?

Kyle Edwards · January 4th, 2005, 11:50 PM

I know I've come across a site that lists just about every codec out there and has the x:x:x information for some, but I couldn't find it (of course) when I try.

Ken Hodson · January 5th, 2005, 02:59 PM

Kyle
"I've tried converting video from the FX1 to both the Sheer and Aware codec and neither holds up. They seem paler and there are some macro blocks in high motion scenes."

The "paler" look is probably the result of some element going wrong in the conversion. Maybe YUV to RGB or some such. The sheervideo codec is completely lossless so the macro blocking you are seeing was probably already there. If you would apply a brightness filter to your origional footage that is probably what you would see (especially if you are talking about FX1 with high motion.)

Kyle Edwards · January 5th, 2005, 07:56 PM

I know for a fact the Aware codec showed macro blocks that were not there, but for the Sheer, I was pretty sure too. I will try again with the Sheer codec and post some samples by tomorrow.

December 13th, 2004, 05:14 PM	#1
Robert Silvers Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 64	Cool, HUFFYUV is faster than uncompressed I was testing codecs with DVD size video: HUFFYUV did 34fps Uncompressed did 24fps Aware Wavelet did 48fps Pretty interesting. They can be used as intermediates for editing.

December 13th, 2004, 05:45 PM	#2
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Uncompressed was likely bottlenecked by disk speed. Normally it would be the fastest given that it doesn't encode. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

January 2nd, 2005, 08:18 PM	#7
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	What is the colour space of HuffYUV? Anyway, anyone know anything about BitJazz SheerVideo™ Pro v2.0 codec? They promote it as being lossless with 1/2 the size as uncompressed and very high speed. Can do 4:4:2 or 4:4:4! http://www.bitjazz.com/sheervideo/ __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

January 3rd, 2005, 07:07 PM	#8
Filip Kovcin Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: warsaw, poland Posts: 440	any links to Aware codec "<---- Interesting. What's the current version of the Aware codec - I couldn't see any details about it on their site?--->" same impression... maybe someone have an info about menitoned aware codec. and link? i do not know nothing about it, and their site makes me confused... can someone clear it for me (us)? thanks, filip

January 5th, 2005, 02:59 PM	#14
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	Kyle "I've tried converting video from the FX1 to both the Sheer and Aware codec and neither holds up. They seem paler and there are some macro blocks in high motion scenes." The "paler" look is probably the result of some element going wrong in the conversion. Maybe YUV to RGB or some such. The sheervideo codec is completely lossless so the macro blocking you are seeing was probably already there. If you would apply a brightness filter to your origional footage that is probably what you would see (especially if you are talking about FX1 with high motion.) __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

December 13th, 2004, 09:55 PM	#3
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	Hi Robert, What software have you decided to do your huffyuv encoding in? ( I was hoping someone would have some interesting suggestions in response to your earlier post.)

December 13th, 2004, 10:24 PM	#4
Robert Silvers Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 64	I wanted to use DVD2AVI but it breaks up the files into 2Gb sections. This is dreadful and has not been a limit for 5 years now. It totally keeps me from swapping the files with the .m2t originals in Vegas. So I am using VirtualDubMpeg now. I have one problem -- the Aware codec does not allow me to select interlace options from VirtualDub, but it does from DVD2AVI. I am not sure why but it 'sees' the video at startup as just 160x128 pixels so that is why it ghosts out the interlace button. I did some more tests. The Aware codec (and Cineform) SMOKES the Pic-wavelet in speed and allows for much larger file sizes, so I assume the Pic is meant for low (low) end video conferencing over a phone line or something. Pic motion jpeg is not bad but their lossless jpeg generates much larger files than HUFFYUV and does so more slowly. Anyway, Aware wavelets not only generates much smaller files than HUFFYUV, but also is faster and plays back more smoothly in Vegas. So I don't plan to use HUFFYUV for editing. The files are just too big, and you are talking to someone who has almost 4 TB of storage online. ConnectHD seems like the best way to go because it combines steps and saves time over useing CapDVHS and VirtualDubMpeg, not to mention that it does all these steps without changing color space (people who think HUFFYUV is 100% 'lossless' are not factoring in the color conversion). So give me a choice of ConnectHD or Aware's codec -- both of which seem to be fast and visually-lossless -- or HUFFYUV which is slower and makes files 6 times larger and is also (slightly) lossy (due to color conversion) -- well, I will go wavelet.

December 14th, 2004, 07:13 PM	#5
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	Interesting. What's the current version of the Aware codec - I couldn't see any details about it on their site?

December 14th, 2004, 07:17 PM	#6
Robert Silvers Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 64	Dunno, but they are not marketing it for this market.

January 4th, 2005, 04:22 PM	#9
Kyle Edwards Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: LI, NY Posts: 274	I've tried converting video from the FX1 to both the Sheer and Aware codec and neither holds up. They seem paler and there are some macro blocks in high motion scenes.

January 4th, 2005, 09:37 PM	#10
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	Slightly off-topic, but can anyone recommend a good way to check what color-space a particular avi file is in, and better still, what color-space conversions have taken place during a decode -> re-encode process. For example, I'm interested in the best ways to convert PAL DV to NTSC DV, and 720p HDV to DV, using tools like VirtualDub and/or Avisynth2.0 and 2.5, and intermediate codecs like huffyuv or aware or simply uncompressed. But when I start trying to figure out what these tools are actually doing to color-space my brain starts hurting....

January 4th, 2005, 09:58 PM	#11
Kyle Edwards Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: LI, NY Posts: 274	The doom9 forums are a good place to start. You can search over there for alot of information about colour space conversions. http://forum.doom9.org/

January 4th, 2005, 10:09 PM	#12
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	Yeah - I watch Doom9 regularly. I was kinda hoping there might be a tool that would actually report on the color-space, YUV etc of a particular avi file, or codec, that might in some cases be of unknown origin. GSpot and Procoder both report the codec and 4cc code, which is half-way there ..... so I was wondering if there's another app that gives additional details?

January 4th, 2005, 11:50 PM	#13
Kyle Edwards Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: LI, NY Posts: 274	I know I've come across a site that lists just about every codec out there and has the x:x:x information for some, but I couldn't find it (of course) when I try.

January 5th, 2005, 07:56 PM	#15
Kyle Edwards Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: LI, NY Posts: 274	I know for a fact the Aware codec showed macro blocks that were not there, but for the Sheer, I was pretty sure too. I will try again with the Sheer codec and post some samples by tomorrow.