PC requirements for editing?

Dave Largent · September 28th, 2004, 04:45 PM

Anyone have any idea if the ConnectHD AVI file
sizes for the 1080i of the Sony cam will be about
the same as for the JVC cam, which has been
stated to be about 1 GB for 3 minutes?

Kevin Shaw · September 29th, 2004, 02:42 PM

David: I feel obliged to say that I find it troubling for you to criticize competing products when you're also the forum moderator, especially since some of your comments are not particularly accurate. Your continued insistence that hardware-based HDV solutions won't have any value ignores things like the usefulness of real-time HDTV previews and other advantages which software-only solutions can't offer. (Particularly in terms of input/output connections.) You also said that hardware-based solutions can't get faster, but you should know that some of the more popular ones are designed to take advantage of increases in computing power over time.

Your company has a great product which can be sold on its own merits without denigrating other solutions, and many of us are looking forward to giving Cineform a whirl. Please refrain from making subjective competitive comments in this forum: just tell us what Cineform can do. Thanks.

Phil Wright · September 30th, 2004, 03:57 PM

Dave Largent - CFHD AVIs for the Sony HDV content are running in the 700MB - 1GB per minute range.

Kevin - Are you suggesting that forum moderators aren't allowed to express an opinion? That would be truly troubling.

Kevin Shaw · September 30th, 2004, 09:52 PM

Phil: I don't have any objection to David posting his opinions about his own product, but as a moderator he should take the high ground and refrain from commenting on his competitors. We can all do that for him...

David Newman · October 3rd, 2004, 11:58 PM

Kevin,

Your comments seem unreleated to this thread. Sorry I couldn't comment earlier, but I was away for a week. Anyway I stand by anything I have said on this forum to be correct as far as I know. I can be wrong, but my opinions are as welcome here as anyone elses (this was made clear to me when I was asked to co-moderate this forum with Frederic Haubrich -- and do think that is "Fair and Balanced" :) .) I do believe costly hardware based solutions are are fast becoming an artifact of the past, but that is only my opinion. I didn't mean to offend you with it.

Thank you for your concern. I do try keep my opinions mostly conservative, but I'm always ready for a debate.

Kevin Shaw · October 5th, 2004, 12:04 AM

David: in retrospect I may have over-reacted, but I was responding to your following comment in this thread plus similar comments in another discussion:

"Hardware vendors many try and compete but that will lose, as the days for custom hardware for NLEs is nearing an end. As CineForm can deliver real-time with software, no hardware can beat us on price or flexibly. As PCs get faster our software gets faster, hardware just stays the same. "

Matters of etiquette aside, I think this is a somewhat optimistic assessment of what Cineform offers relative to upcoming hardware-based HDV editing options. In fact based on feedback I've been getting in discussions about Cineform, it seems some people would like to see it have a hardware interface for real-time HDTV previews. Also, as I tried to point out before, it's incorrect to say that hardware-based solutions can't get faster with improvements in general computer hardware, as some of them are designed to do just that. And somewhere in the middle you've got Pinnacle Liquid Edition 6 getting a lot of publicity with a software-based solution that has a hardware interface option.

I still think Cineform has perhaps the best HDV editing option going, but I don't think it helps any to over-sell it.

Ron Evans · October 5th, 2004, 06:06 AM

Kevin has a point as far as analogue/digital out to preview monitor is concerned during editing and output to tape. I have a DVRaptor RT2 that will output to DV in realtime ( provided only Canopus transitions/filters are used). This saves a lot of time if there are lots of filters used etc over Premiere with OHCI which will allow a variation of realtime during editing but will require rendering before output to tape. The Canopus does this by a combination of hardware and software and also provides the hardware connectors. I see no reason why this couldn't be done for HDV. Then it is just an issue of price. Canopus also has a software only solution with Edius but this too will work with the Canopus hardware and provide the connectors and further acceleration. I have ordered my FX1 although I am sure initially I will use as DV camcorder. I would certainly like to have a HDV editing solution that allows me to see a preview image on a real TV NOT a PC monitor. So hardware with a combination of iLink, DVI , HDMI and component would be a plus. IF this hardware happened to contain codecs of some form....... THe real issue is the total price for software and the hardware interfaces and that is how I will make my decision when the time comes.

Ron Evans

October 3rd, 2004, 11:58 PM	#20
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Kevin, Your comments seem unreleated to this thread. Sorry I couldn't comment earlier, but I was away for a week. Anyway I stand by anything I have said on this forum to be correct as far as I know. I can be wrong, but my opinions are as welcome here as anyone elses (this was made clear to me when I was asked to co-moderate this forum with Frederic Haubrich -- and do think that is "Fair and Balanced" :) .) I do believe costly hardware based solutions are are fast becoming an artifact of the past, but that is only my opinion. I didn't mean to offend you with it. Thank you for your concern. I do try keep my opinions mostly conservative, but I'm always ready for a debate. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

September 28th, 2004, 04:45 PM	#16
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	Anyone have any idea if the ConnectHD AVI file sizes for the 1080i of the Sony cam will be about the same as for the JVC cam, which has been stated to be about 1 GB for 3 minutes?

September 29th, 2004, 02:42 PM	#17
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	David: I feel obliged to say that I find it troubling for you to criticize competing products when you're also the forum moderator, especially since some of your comments are not particularly accurate. Your continued insistence that hardware-based HDV solutions won't have any value ignores things like the usefulness of real-time HDTV previews and other advantages which software-only solutions can't offer. (Particularly in terms of input/output connections.) You also said that hardware-based solutions can't get faster, but you should know that some of the more popular ones are designed to take advantage of increases in computing power over time. Your company has a great product which can be sold on its own merits without denigrating other solutions, and many of us are looking forward to giving Cineform a whirl. Please refrain from making subjective competitive comments in this forum: just tell us what Cineform can do. Thanks.

September 30th, 2004, 03:57 PM	#18
Phil Wright CineForm (Aspect HD) Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oceanside, CA Posts: 57	Dave Largent - CFHD AVIs for the Sony HDV content are running in the 700MB - 1GB per minute range. Kevin - Are you suggesting that forum moderators aren't allowed to express an opinion? That would be truly troubling.

September 30th, 2004, 09:52 PM	#19
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	Phil: I don't have any objection to David posting his opinions about his own product, but as a moderator he should take the high ground and refrain from commenting on his competitors. We can all do that for him...

October 5th, 2004, 12:04 AM	#21
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	David: in retrospect I may have over-reacted, but I was responding to your following comment in this thread plus similar comments in another discussion: "Hardware vendors many try and compete but that will lose, as the days for custom hardware for NLEs is nearing an end. As CineForm can deliver real-time with software, no hardware can beat us on price or flexibly. As PCs get faster our software gets faster, hardware just stays the same. " Matters of etiquette aside, I think this is a somewhat optimistic assessment of what Cineform offers relative to upcoming hardware-based HDV editing options. In fact based on feedback I've been getting in discussions about Cineform, it seems some people would like to see it have a hardware interface for real-time HDTV previews. Also, as I tried to point out before, it's incorrect to say that hardware-based solutions can't get faster with improvements in general computer hardware, as some of them are designed to do just that. And somewhere in the middle you've got Pinnacle Liquid Edition 6 getting a lot of publicity with a software-based solution that has a hardware interface option. I still think Cineform has perhaps the best HDV editing option going, but I don't think it helps any to over-sell it.

October 5th, 2004, 06:06 AM	#22
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Kevin has a point as far as analogue/digital out to preview monitor is concerned during editing and output to tape. I have a DVRaptor RT2 that will output to DV in realtime ( provided only Canopus transitions/filters are used). This saves a lot of time if there are lots of filters used etc over Premiere with OHCI which will allow a variation of realtime during editing but will require rendering before output to tape. The Canopus does this by a combination of hardware and software and also provides the hardware connectors. I see no reason why this couldn't be done for HDV. Then it is just an issue of price. Canopus also has a software only solution with Edius but this too will work with the Canopus hardware and provide the connectors and further acceleration. I have ordered my FX1 although I am sure initially I will use as DV camcorder. I would certainly like to have a HDV editing solution that allows me to see a preview image on a real TV NOT a PC monitor. So hardware with a combination of iLink, DVI , HDMI and component would be a plus. IF this hardware happened to contain codecs of some form....... THe real issue is the total price for software and the hardware interfaces and that is how I will make my decision when the time comes. Ron Evans