Computer store guy said Firewire and USB 2 are not fast enough for HD video editing

Brian Tori · August 29th, 2009, 05:28 PM

In my experience, the processor has more to do with performance than modern disks or interfaces. All four of the current interfaces are more than capable of handling a majority of what most editors require. For example, as an editor, I routinely receive projects on hard drives that have USB 2.0 as the connection. Whether it's DV, HDV, AVCHD, the USB 2.0 connection serves us well. Typically, I edit up to three streams at a time, and even at the HDV bitrate of 3.6 MB/sec x 3 streams this only requires around 12MB and that's being generous. I've tested my external USB drives and they're capable of over 20MB/sec. The bottleneck these days in my opinion is processor speed. When I upgraded from a Core 2 duo to a Core 2 quad, this enabled me to edit even AVCHD natively. My processor runs between 50%-60% with native AVC.

It seems that a new connection standard is around the corner. Looks impressive.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2008/11/superspeed-us-1/

Bryan Daugherty · August 30th, 2009, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Moretti

...I wound up purchasing this cable:

Newegg.com - SIIG 3.28 ft. eSATA to SATA I Cable Model CB-SA0311-S1 - Cables...

If I am not mistaken won't that drop your eSATA speed from SATA II (300MB/s) to SATA I speed (150 MB/s.) I could be reading the specs wrong but that is what it looks like to me.

Peter Moretti · August 31st, 2009, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan Daugherty

If I am not mistaken won't that drop your eSATA speed from SATA II (300MB/s) to SATA I speed (150 MB/s.) I could be reading the specs wrong but that is what it looks like to me.

Yes it will, you read it correctly. My mobo actually is SATA I.

Ron Evans · August 31st, 2009, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan Daugherty

If I am not mistaken won't that drop your eSATA speed from SATA II (300MB/s) to SATA I speed (150 MB/s.) I could be reading the specs wrong but that is what it looks like to me.

It's just a cable so the motherboard and device used will govern how fast it goes.

Ron Evans

Peter Moretti · August 31st, 2009, 02:47 PM

Ron, that makes sense. Well the cable arrived and it seems to be working fine. I'm not even going to try booting the disk after the BIOS test or hot swapping. I'm just going to power it before boot-up and power it down after the computer is off. Sounds like a pain, but I think the extra speed is worth it.

Thanks again everyone ;).

Devin Termini · August 31st, 2009, 09:25 PM

Although eSATA is the best option - I'm not sure why people are recommending against FW800. I edited a feature-length documentary shot on EX1 cameras using a Caldigit FW 800 drive. Never had a problem, or wished my drives moved quicker. I did wish my drives were bigger, but that's a different problem entirely.

Peter Moretti · August 31st, 2009, 09:46 PM

I think people are just saying that it goes in this order: eSATA, FW800, FW400, USB2. Looking at the bandwidth specs, I believe I could have used FW400, which is what I was expecting to use.

But when it was mentioned that eSATA and SATA are compatible except for the connector, I jumped on the idea of connecting my external drive directly to an empty SATA head on my motherboard.

Also, I use Avid which can be pretty finicky (err suck at times) when it comes to firewire capture, so I've been operating with the unsubstantiated belief that the less firewire devices connected the better.

Ron Evans · September 1st, 2009, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devin Termini

Although eSATA is the best option - I'm not sure why people are recommending against FW800. I edited a feature-length documentary shot on EX1 cameras using a Caldigit FW 800 drive. Never had a problem, or wished my drives moved quicker. I did wish my drives were bigger, but that's a different problem entirely.

In general PC's do not have FW800. They have 1394 ( 6 and/or 4 pin), lots of USB connectors and with newer boards eSATA as well as mainly SATA(1 or 2 depending on age) internally.

Ron Evans

Ronald Lee · September 1st, 2009, 10:04 AM

Hey, you know, as everyone here is so up on the technology and we all recognize that the processor speed and system specs are so important.... why don't we pick out a few computers that would be great HD editing sytems?

Either name the specs for the BEST computer one should get today if you built it, or better yet, choose one from Learn about Dell's laptops, desktops, monitors, printers, computer electronics & accessories. or Best Buy Canada

It should be interesting to see what crazy stuff is out there right now. I may even just upgrade based on your recommendation.

Harm Millaard · September 3rd, 2009, 01:38 AM

You may have a look here: Adobe Forums: A PC buying guide for NLE (mainly Intel)
At the end is a link to my setup, with the major components listed.

Ronald Lee · September 4th, 2009, 01:37 AM

Oh, thanks for the link. I went with option 1 from the thread, which is to buy one from Dell. Yes, as it turns out, this thread inspired me to do a much needed upgrade.

I don't think this is a dual core, but should be enough to edit Cineform Neo Scene on Premiere Elements 7 easily. I was looking for these:

1) fast processor
2) lots of RAM
3) 1 TB hard drive
4) eSata port
5) blu-disc burner.

I ended up getting a 23" screen as well. What do you think of these specs, can this computer do anything?

Studio XPS featuring Core i7 processors, Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Edition SP1, 64-Bit.

Studio XPS Studio XPS featuring Core i7 processors
Processors Intel® Core? i7-920 Processor(8MB L3 Cache, 2.66GHz)
Memory 8GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1066MHz - 6 DIMMs
Video Card ATI Radeon HD 4350 512MB
Hard Drives 1.28 TB Performance RAID 0 (2 x 640GB SATA 3Gb/s 7200 RPM HDDs)
Optical Drives Single Drive: Blu-ray Disc (BD) Burner (Writes to DVD/CD/BD)
Sound Card Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio

Harm Millaard · September 4th, 2009, 02:04 AM

Ronald,

A couple of remarks/suggestions.

1. If the model is the XPS435, be aware the Bios is crippled and can not be overclocked.
2. With 6 DIMM's should it not be 12 GB ?
3. Get Dell to NOT install a raid0, but to leave them as individual disks and to install the OS on one disk.
4. Buy an additional 640 G disk (same brand and model as Dell supplies), install it yourself.

In general it is not a good idea to use a raid0 as boot disk. After you have installed a third disk, you can choose to make a raid0 with the 2 non-boot disks if you want, but probably it is better to leave them separate.

Ronald Lee · September 4th, 2009, 06:39 PM

Hi Harm,

Thanks for your reply.

1. I didn't get the XPS435, although it was on the list of possibles. It is the Studio XPS. Might still have the same motherboard, I dunno.

2. Dunno about the Dimms.

3. I dunno if they will make it a Raid0 as it's all automated from the factory. I'll have to check when I get it I guess.

4. If it is a Raid0 and I can't change it on my own, then I may get another disc and see. I actually will be putting in my old 150 GB SATA drive from my other computer into it.

Thanks!

August 31st, 2009, 02:47 PM	#50
Peter Moretti Trustee Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 1,259	Ron, that makes sense. Well the cable arrived and it seems to be working fine. I'm not even going to try booting the disk after the BIOS test or hot swapping. I'm just going to power it before boot-up and power it down after the computer is off. Sounds like a pain, but I think the extra speed is worth it. Thanks again everyone ;). __________________ Avid Media Composer 3.1.3. Boris Red and Continuum Complete. Vegas 8.0c. TMPGEnc Xpress Pro 4.0

August 31st, 2009, 09:46 PM	#52
Peter Moretti Trustee Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 1,259	I think people are just saying that it goes in this order: eSATA, FW800, FW400, USB2. Looking at the bandwidth specs, I believe I could have used FW400, which is what I was expecting to use. But when it was mentioned that eSATA and SATA are compatible except for the connector, I jumped on the idea of connecting my external drive directly to an empty SATA head on my motherboard. Also, I use Avid which can be pretty finicky (err suck at times) when it comes to firewire capture, so I've been operating with the unsubstantiated belief that the less firewire devices connected the better. __________________ Avid Media Composer 3.1.3. Boris Red and Continuum Complete. Vegas 8.0c. TMPGEnc Xpress Pro 4.0

September 1st, 2009, 10:04 AM	#54
Ronald Lee Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 435	Choose your idea computer! Hey, you know, as everyone here is so up on the technology and we all recognize that the processor speed and system specs are so important.... why don't we pick out a few computers that would be great HD editing sytems? Either name the specs for the BEST computer one should get today if you built it, or better yet, choose one from Learn about Dell's laptops, desktops, monitors, printers, computer electronics & accessories. or Best Buy Canada It should be interesting to see what crazy stuff is out there right now. I may even just upgrade based on your recommendation.

August 29th, 2009, 05:28 PM	#46
Brian Tori Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 408	In my experience, the processor has more to do with performance than modern disks or interfaces. All four of the current interfaces are more than capable of handling a majority of what most editors require. For example, as an editor, I routinely receive projects on hard drives that have USB 2.0 as the connection. Whether it's DV, HDV, AVCHD, the USB 2.0 connection serves us well. Typically, I edit up to three streams at a time, and even at the HDV bitrate of 3.6 MB/sec x 3 streams this only requires around 12MB and that's being generous. I've tested my external USB drives and they're capable of over 20MB/sec. The bottleneck these days in my opinion is processor speed. When I upgraded from a Core 2 duo to a Core 2 quad, this enabled me to edit even AVCHD natively. My processor runs between 50%-60% with native AVC. It seems that a new connection standard is around the corner. Looks impressive. http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2008/11/superspeed-us-1/

August 31st, 2009, 09:25 PM	#51
Devin Termini Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mount Pleasant, MI Posts: 177	Although eSATA is the best option - I'm not sure why people are recommending against FW800. I edited a feature-length documentary shot on EX1 cameras using a Caldigit FW 800 drive. Never had a problem, or wished my drives moved quicker. I did wish my drives were bigger, but that's a different problem entirely.

September 3rd, 2009, 01:38 AM	#55
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	You may have a look here: Adobe Forums: A PC buying guide for NLE (mainly Intel) At the end is a link to my setup, with the major components listed.

September 4th, 2009, 01:37 AM	#56
Ronald Lee Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 435	Oh, thanks for the link. I went with option 1 from the thread, which is to buy one from Dell. Yes, as it turns out, this thread inspired me to do a much needed upgrade. I don't think this is a dual core, but should be enough to edit Cineform Neo Scene on Premiere Elements 7 easily. I was looking for these: 1) fast processor 2) lots of RAM 3) 1 TB hard drive 4) eSata port 5) blu-disc burner. I ended up getting a 23" screen as well. What do you think of these specs, can this computer do anything? Studio XPS featuring Core i7 processors, Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Edition SP1, 64-Bit. Studio XPS Studio XPS featuring Core i7 processors Processors Intel® Core? i7-920 Processor(8MB L3 Cache, 2.66GHz) Memory 8GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1066MHz - 6 DIMMs Video Card ATI Radeon HD 4350 512MB Hard Drives 1.28 TB Performance RAID 0 (2 x 640GB SATA 3Gb/s 7200 RPM HDDs) Optical Drives Single Drive: Blu-ray Disc (BD) Burner (Writes to DVD/CD/BD) Sound Card Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio

September 4th, 2009, 02:04 AM	#57
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	Ronald, A couple of remarks/suggestions. 1. If the model is the XPS435, be aware the Bios is crippled and can not be overclocked. 2. With 6 DIMM's should it not be 12 GB ? 3. Get Dell to NOT install a raid0, but to leave them as individual disks and to install the OS on one disk. 4. Buy an additional 640 G disk (same brand and model as Dell supplies), install it yourself. In general it is not a good idea to use a raid0 as boot disk. After you have installed a third disk, you can choose to make a raid0 with the 2 non-boot disks if you want, but probably it is better to leave them separate.

September 4th, 2009, 06:39 PM	#58
Ronald Lee Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 435	Hi Harm, Thanks for your reply. 1. I didn't get the XPS435, although it was on the list of possibles. It is the Studio XPS. Might still have the same motherboard, I dunno. 2. Dunno about the Dimms. 3. I dunno if they will make it a Raid0 as it's all automated from the factory. I'll have to check when I get it I guess. 4. If it is a Raid0 and I can't change it on my own, then I may get another disc and see. I actually will be putting in my old 150 GB SATA drive from my other computer into it. Thanks!