Is Interleced + De-interleced = Progressive at DVinfo.net

Dan Chiaperini · July 14th, 2009, 11:23 AM

I know this my sound silly but,
If I capture 60i and then de-interleced to those the video became progressive?

I capture HDV 60i and my final product is DVD.
My work flow is:

FX7 hdv
HDV slipt (capture)
Premiere (editing)
Virtual dub (rezise)
Tmpge xpress (enconde for DVD)
Adobe Encoder

In the tmpge I have a lot of options to de-interleced the video, as in the vdub.
I read on some foruns that , for DVD, I cann´t change the video to progressive.

Thnx
Dan

Graham Hickling · July 14th, 2009, 11:59 AM

Briefly, yes if you deinterlace 60i it will become progressive. In the case of TMPGenc it would become 30P by default, although 60P is also possible using other software.

What you have read about on the forum is that DVD is an inherently interlaced format; the data structure that holds the mpeg streams is fields-based rather than frames-based. Nevertheless, if you put progressive on a DVD it will still 'look' progressive because each pair of fields are coming from the same 30P frame.

Dan Chiaperini · July 15th, 2009, 09:09 AM

Thanks very much, that helps a lot.

Kevin Duffey · July 15th, 2009, 05:08 PM

That is interesting.. all the new dvd players the past year or so have been touting the "progressive" feature. It does make sense that it's interlaced.. so are they spitting out progressive to be compatible with LCD/plasma? I have an old non-progressive player that worked on my LCD as well.. so curious how all that fits together. If dvd is interlaced, and you use old player, with component video, it puts out interlaced. So the LCD/plasma has something in it to convert it back? Likewise, a dvd with interlaced using HDMI or DVI out spits out progressive (I assume..not sure if hdmi/dvi puts out interlaced as well or if it even can), so the dvd player converts to progressive?

Martin Wiosna · August 6th, 2009, 08:41 PM

I capture 1080i footage, then edit and when i render it I will render in 720x480 progressive.

Is it still progressive?

Graham Hickling · August 6th, 2009, 09:04 PM

Your raw 1080i footage is interlaced (that's what the i means). If you render specifying progressive, it will become 480p progressive footage.

David Dwyer · August 20th, 2009, 12:04 PM

Ah thank you I was about to ask something like this. So on the 1080 scale where would my 1080i (1440*1080) then If I deinterlace it It doesnt come 1080p because thats? (1920*1080?)

Or is it?

Graham Hickling · August 20th, 2009, 12:55 PM

If you simply deinterlace it will become 1440x1080 non-square-pixel 16:9 progressive.

Most software than allows you to deinterlace allows you to then resize as well - so if you want you could resize to 1920x1080 or 1280x720 (both 16:9 with square pixels).

David Dwyer · August 21st, 2009, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Hickling

If you simply deinterlace it will become 1440x1080 non-square-pixel 16:9 progressive.

Most software than allows you to deinterlace allows you to then resize as well - so if you want you could resize to 1920x1080 or 1280x720 (both 16:9 with square pixels).

Will the quailty suffer if I change the res to 1920*1080?

At the moment my 1080i has a PAR of 1.33? And I read something if you times 1440 by 1.33 you get the 1920?

Graham Hickling · August 21st, 2009, 09:27 AM

The non-square PAR is done to reduce filesize ... when that footage is replayed, the software or hardware player essentially stretches it to 1080x1920 in the same way that the resize I mentioned would stretch it.

So .... you wont really lose any quality by resizing but you will end up with a bigger file. (If you used high compression to hold the file size down then yes you would lose quality.)

But conversely you also won't really gain any quality either. Except that some mpeg-compressors seem to dis-like compressing non-square PARS. Some folks feel they get better mpeg compression if they resize to 1920x1080 first.

David Dwyer · August 21st, 2009, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Hickling

The non-square PAR is done to reduce filesize ... when that footage is replayed, the software or hardware player essentially stretches it to 1080x1920 in the same way that the resize I mentioned would stretch it.

So .... you wont really lose any quality by resizing but you will end up with a bigger file. (If you used high compression to hold the file size down then yes you would lose quality.)

But conversely you also won't really gain any quality either. Except that some mpeg-compressors seem to dis-like compressing non-square PARS. Some folks feel they get better mpeg compression if they resize to 1920x1080 first.

Great many thanks. I was wondering why my Samsung telly was displaying my 1440*1080 video in what seems like 4*3. It wasnt expanding it so if I output to 1920*1080 with Square pixels it will just work everywhere!

Cheers Graham.

Alex Humphrey · August 31st, 2009, 05:42 PM

One thing to remember, 30p is not correctly supported in NTSC DVD. NTSC DVD is 60i or 24p carried in a 60i file. 30p footage comes out with 24p + some interlaced frames. So convert your 60i to 24p before or after editing, but before encoding for DVD. You will have better results. But try it out and compare it.

July 14th, 2009, 11:23 AM	#1
Dan Chiaperini New Boot Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Brazil Posts: 10	Is Interleced + De-interleced = Progressive I know this my sound silly but, If I capture 60i and then de-interleced to those the video became progressive? I capture HDV 60i and my final product is DVD. My work flow is: FX7 hdv HDV slipt (capture) Premiere (editing) Virtual dub (rezise) Tmpge xpress (enconde for DVD) Adobe Encoder In the tmpge I have a lot of options to de-interleced the video, as in the vdub. I read on some foruns that , for DVD, I cann´t change the video to progressive. Thnx Dan __________________ Dan After you learn share, or you wouldn´t never learn in the first place

July 15th, 2009, 09:09 AM	#3
Dan Chiaperini New Boot Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Brazil Posts: 10	Thx Thanks very much, that helps a lot. __________________ Dan After you learn share, or you wouldn´t never learn in the first place

July 14th, 2009, 11:59 AM	#2
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	Briefly, yes if you deinterlace 60i it will become progressive. In the case of TMPGenc it would become 30P by default, although 60P is also possible using other software. What you have read about on the forum is that DVD is an inherently interlaced format; the data structure that holds the mpeg streams is fields-based rather than frames-based. Nevertheless, if you put progressive on a DVD it will still 'look' progressive because each pair of fields are coming from the same 30P frame.

July 15th, 2009, 05:08 PM	#4
Kevin Duffey Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: California Posts: 206	That is interesting.. all the new dvd players the past year or so have been touting the "progressive" feature. It does make sense that it's interlaced.. so are they spitting out progressive to be compatible with LCD/plasma? I have an old non-progressive player that worked on my LCD as well.. so curious how all that fits together. If dvd is interlaced, and you use old player, with component video, it puts out interlaced. So the LCD/plasma has something in it to convert it back? Likewise, a dvd with interlaced using HDMI or DVI out spits out progressive (I assume..not sure if hdmi/dvi puts out interlaced as well or if it even can), so the dvd player converts to progressive?

August 6th, 2009, 08:41 PM	#5
Martin Wiosna Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: thomaston, ct Posts: 141	I capture 1080i footage, then edit and when i render it I will render in 720x480 progressive. Is it still progressive?

August 6th, 2009, 09:04 PM	#6
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	Your raw 1080i footage is interlaced (that's what the i means). If you render specifying progressive, it will become 480p progressive footage.

August 20th, 2009, 12:04 PM	#7
David Dwyer Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Chester, North West Posts: 565	Ah thank you I was about to ask something like this. So on the 1080 scale where would my 1080i (14401080) then If I deinterlace it It doesnt come 1080p because thats? (19201080?) Or is it?

August 20th, 2009, 12:55 PM	#8
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	If you simply deinterlace it will become 1440x1080 non-square-pixel 16:9 progressive. Most software than allows you to deinterlace allows you to then resize as well - so if you want you could resize to 1920x1080 or 1280x720 (both 16:9 with square pixels).

August 21st, 2009, 09:27 AM	#10
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	The non-square PAR is done to reduce filesize ... when that footage is replayed, the software or hardware player essentially stretches it to 1080x1920 in the same way that the resize I mentioned would stretch it. So .... you wont really lose any quality by resizing but you will end up with a bigger file. (If you used high compression to hold the file size down then yes you would lose quality.) But conversely you also won't really gain any quality either. Except that some mpeg-compressors seem to dis-like compressing non-square PARS. Some folks feel they get better mpeg compression if they resize to 1920x1080 first.

August 31st, 2009, 05:42 PM	#12
Alex Humphrey Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: california North and South Posts: 642	One thing to remember, 30p is not correctly supported in NTSC DVD. NTSC DVD is 60i or 24p carried in a 60i file. 30p footage comes out with 24p + some interlaced frames. So convert your 60i to 24p before or after editing, but before encoding for DVD. You will have better results. But try it out and compare it.